Is JMM an ATG? If not can he attain that status?

[-Kev-]

Achievements:

1. There are 37 three divisional champions in the history of boxing. That alone doesn't make you an ATG, but JMM is part of this list.

2. There's only been 3 LW Ring champions out of 32, who kept their championship for 4 years or more before vacating it/losing. Ike Williams[4 years], Joe Brown[6 years], and Juan Manuel Marquez[4 years].

3. Out of 50 fights at Featherweight, he's arguably 48-1-1. Making him one of the greatest FW's of all time, top 10 if he got the decisions he deserved.

4. In his 11 fights above his career weight[126], he is arguably 10-1 spanning from 130-147.

5. Should be known as a former Ring 130 champion if not for a robbery. Which would have made him Ring champion in 2 different weight classes, 130 and 135. With my spotty knowledge of boxing history, and a quick half-assed search, I ask wouldn't this have made him the only fighter in Mexican boxing history to win the Ring title in two different weight classes?

Marquez was robbed of some pretty big feats, and he has to suffer and not get full credit because of bad judging.

[Jack Napier]

well people dont think about them like that or else we wouldnt be getting a 4th fight.
Wins and losses arent everything. JMM won more on his last bout vs pacquiao than bradley in his so called victory

you're exactly right
his 3 efforts vs Pac>>>>>>>>>what Bradley did in the robbery
but we're talking about JMM's resume

[-Kev-]

An ATG Featherweight, who's supposed to be a top 3 Welterweight as we speak[possibly #2 best] at 37 years old, and should be 4 divisional champion, is not at least a top 100 ATG?

[Vasyl’s dad]

no he's not an ATG, he's just great right now
coulda faced Barrera when they were GWF, nothing ever came out of it
Naz and Warren offered him a fight when Hamed's opponent pulled out
piss drinker turned it down
Terrible wanted another big fight ASAP after losing the 3rd Barrera fight
piss drinker turned it down
after the 1st fight, Pac offered him an immediate rematch
piss drinker turned it down
nobody ducked piss drinker, he and Nacho are morons
they've been selling this crap for yrs

This is truth right here. Marquez didn't want any of these dudes. He's somewhat over rated as far as his technique is concerned as well. The way people describe him, you'd think that he was a brilliant and masterful technician. He's not. He just throws textbook punches that look great. He's not great on defense and his overall ring IQ is not at all great. He's looks great against no names, but gets tagged and drawn into wars vs good names, and gets dropped by great names.

[-Kev-]

Correction, 39* years old. Was thinking about the time when he fought Floyd.

[SplitSecond]

nah, good fighter tho, pacquiaos kryptonite simply because his entire style is just what you need to beat pacquiao

backpeddle, turn to your left, counter punch <-- the reason bradley couldn't compare to marquez is because that has always been marquez's style from day one, he's perfected it and it's just what you need for pac

[studentofthegam]

ATG? No. HOF? Yes. Marquez problem is that outside of Pacquiao his resume is norhing impressive and he whent life and death with face first brawlers like Diaz and Katsidis. Also if you look at his las 10 fights is just garbage for a guy of his caliber.

How can you even be a sure fire HOF with a BS resume?

a no question hall-of-famer, but not an ATG.
All of his best performances came against Pac, but when he wasn't facing Pacman he was just very good. Getting punked by Mayweather + losing to Chris John (never seen this fight but I heard it could have gone either way which in any event isn't a ringing endorsement for JMM's ATG candidacy) definitely dock him a couple points.
He has won titles in three different weight divisions as well as one LINEAL belts at 135. But a closer examination shows his six best victories were probably against
a) Marco Antonio Barrera (post-Morales)
b) Orlando Salido (before he hit his prime)
c) Joel Casamayor (over the hill)
d) Juan Diaz (probably not very good to begin with)
e) Derrick Gainer (in retrospect does this really seem like a big win?)
f) Rocky Juarez, in his prime, and maybe his best non-Pacquiao performance.

He's in a position now where he can strengthen his ATG credentials because of all the terrific young fighters at or around his current weight class but IMO he hasn't fought anybody of note not named Manny Pacquiao since Michael Katsidis, who's really just been propped up by HBO cause he makes for exciting fights. And given his age, it's doubtful he'll be around long enough to take most of these guys on.

Now you can say JMM had a case of dariusz michalczewski-syndrome cause Morales and Barrera both ducked the urine-drinking fighter while he was in his prime, but while that can be a case to bolster his HOF credentials, is his current resume good enough to put him up there with Pacquiao, Mayweather, RJJ + Hopkins in the discussion of modern ATG fighters? three titles-one lineal, against solid but not stellar opposition, a FOTY, and above all getting a draw as well as getting robbed at least once against a bona fide ATG is HOF certainly, but not ATG. For that he would need to distance himself from Pacquiao and prove that he's not just a Ken Norton to Pacquiao's Ali but a fighter who can forge a substantial legacy separate from good showings against one fighter.

Thank you. Somebody who has a clue about Marquez pre-Pacquiao. The piss drinker **** is played out though.

This is truth right here. Marquez didn't want any of these dudes. He's somewhat over rated as far as his technique is concerned as well. The way people describe him, you'd think that he was a brilliant and masterful technician. He's not. He just throws textbook punches that look great. He's not great on defense and his overall ring IQ is not at all great. He's looks great against no names, but gets tagged and drawn into wars vs good names, and gets dropped by great names.

You dont know what the hell you're talking about. People simply say he's a great counter puncher and if you cant see that then.......People are a strange species. Yall spit on technicians for not taking chances but then you have an exciting well schooled fighter who doesnt mind going to war and somehow thats negative. Make up yall damn mind.

[Sin City]

No.

This guy conned everyone into thinking he's great. Fighting Pacquiao every couple of years with some EZ, tailor-made fights in between does not equal greatness.

Excluding Pac...MAB, Casamayor, Kats, and Diaz are his best official wins. That is not an ATG resume IMO.

Barrera's last hurrah was in '06 when he was going life and death with Rocky Juarez. He didn't do anything relevant after that.

Casamayor previously had received a gift with a bow on top in the Santa Cruz fight. He looked terrible and clearly lost. He also was coming off a yearlong layoff and fighting Corrales 3x, Castillo, Freitas, prime Nate Campbell. His body was DONE.

Diaz, good win, probably JMM's best official win. Diaz was a good fighter but was basically a full time LAW student when they fought. Still a good win.

It pains me to say it but Kats is just a journeyman. He's EZ to hit and comes right at you, tailor-made for JMM. It was a stay busy fight for Pacquiao III.

JMM also has wins over Juarez, Gainer, Peden, and Salido (NOW you can say it's a good win). Mediocre.

This is a good resume, maybe even a HOF, but ATG, LEGEND? GTFO. This con artist owes his entire career and life to one man, Manny Pacquiao. Without him, his legacy is ****. He is not greater than Barrera, Morales, or even Castillo. Not a chance. Those guys fought the best at their best. This guy took EZ fights and followed Pac around like a psycho ex-gf.

it's highly amusing to me that you have the nerve to call Marquez a con artist with Margarito as your avy.. lol

[Sin City]

Keep in mind, this piss guzzler could have fought Khan, Rios, Matthysse, Bradley, Valero, Guzman, Morales, Hamed, etc. But nope. He settled for sucking Pacquiao's ****. And if he loses next month, I GUARANFUKINTEE he will call for a 5TH fight!

Pacquiao > all of the names you just mentioned.

[Sin City]

ATG? No. HOF? Yes. Marquez problem is that outside of Pacquiao his resume is norhing impressive and he whent life and death with face first brawlers like Diaz and Katsidis. Also if you look at his las 10 fights is just garbage for a guy of his caliber.

I agree with this. I believe Marquez is one of the smartest boxers in the business, if not the smartest but he is lacking in the athleticism department. this is why he's gone life and death with said fighters. I don't see it as a bad thing though.. Marquez is a small fighter, who many times is outgunned and still manages to get the win keeping calm and playing chess.

I don't believe he is an all time great.. but I do believe he belongs in the hall of fame.
to me what an all time great means is that you are in the top 100 boxers of all time. I'm not ready to put him in that category yet.