Liston in the 70s?

[Sugarj]

I don't really remember post Manila Ali having any great outing. He certainly never looked himself again after that fight, and he'd lost his speed and headmovement almost completely by that point which is really a big part of what won him the first Liston fight (s).

They only really did damage to his reputation amongst casual boxing fans I think - because that's how they know him.

All time dream fight: prime liston vs prime frazier. Now that would be a fight.

I quite rated Ali's post Manilla performances against Norton (3), Shavers and Spinks 2. Coopman, Dunn etc were not world class fighters. The Jimmy Young performance was horrible!

Granted, he was far from his best '70's form and to be honest neither of these three were prime Liston. But he did show some terrific combinations, a remarkable chin and excellent 15 round stamina against Shavers. Against Spinks he really did dance a hell of a lot over those 15 rounds in the rematch.....I think at that point he would have at the very least lasted the distance against prime Liston. But I certainly wouldn't have bet on the result, Liston was terrific.

[Sugarj]

He meant to say, ''Vitali was good''...'' New robot please.''

You legend!

[LacedUp]

I quite rated Ali's post Manilla performances against Norton (3), Shavers and Spinks 2. Coopman, Dunn etc were not world class fighters. The Jimmy Young performance was horrible!

Granted, he was far from his best '70's form and to be honest neither of these three were prime Liston. But he did show some terrific combinations, a remarkable chin and excellent 15 round stamina against Shavers. Against Spinks he really did dance a hell of a lot over those 15 rounds in the rematch.....I think at that point he would have at the very least lasted the distance against prime Liston. But I certainly wouldn't have bet on the result, Liston was terrific.

I think Ali lost the third fight vs Norton and didn't look good at all. Of course, Ali has a different measuring stick than most fighters because he was so magnificent when he peaked.

I don't really think Spinks was world class either, despite Ali telling the world he was one of the best of all times. He was sort of good, but didn't do anything spectacular, and if Ali had trained properly for the first fight he wouldn't have lost that either in my opinion.

He did have a solid outing vs Shavers. Solid describes it pretty well, he didn't do anything spectacular in the fight though. when I think about that version of Ali vs a prime Liston, I'm thinking about round 4 of their first fight. A flat-flooted Ali unable to dodge the punches and who would have to stay in the pocket. He took so many body punches from Liston in that 4th round after he was blinded and though supremely conditioned, I doubt he would be able to take that kind of punishment from Liston over 15 rounds at 36 or whatever he was.

Liston was a deadly fighter though, he really was.

[Scott9945]

Liston was slow as molasses and had no skill (a bum). Klitschko's would humiliate him.

Does your band play any other songs? Because once the shock value of your ignorance wears off, it just becomes repetitive stupidity.

[GeneralZod]

I'd take him over just about everyone with a few very notable exceptions.

I still put Ali over him, likely by decision or maybe very late TKO.

Him and Frazier is practically a blood bath, could go either way. I'll sway towards Joe a little.

Foreman drops him in 8.

Lyle puts up a decent fight but he's down in 9.

Kenny Norton either survives to a lucky decision or falls in 8-10, unless he avoids him altogether.

Liston could be a champion briefly in the period, maybe around when Jimmy Ellis was briefly the "man" in the division.

[Sugarj]

I think Ali lost the third fight vs Norton and didn't look good at all. Of course, Ali has a different measuring stick than most fighters because he was so magnificent when he peaked.

I don't really think Spinks was world class either, despite Ali telling the world he was one of the best of all times. He was sort of good, but didn't do anything spectacular, and if Ali had trained properly for the first fight he wouldn't have lost that either in my opinion.

He did have a solid outing vs Shavers. Solid describes it pretty well, he didn't do anything spectacular in the fight though. when I think about that version of Ali vs a prime Liston, I'm thinking about round 4 of their first fight. A flat-flooted Ali unable to dodge the punches and who would have to stay in the pocket. He took so many body punches from Liston in that 4th round after he was blinded and though supremely conditioned, I doubt he would be able to take that kind of punishment from Liston over 15 rounds at 36 or whatever he was.

Liston was a deadly fighter though, he really was.

I have mixed views of the third Norton fight. It was one where the rounds that Norton won were far more decisive than those that Ali shaded. The problem was that Ali probably shaded eight of the fifteen. I'd never argue with anyone who scored it for Norton; but given Norton's form against Young and Holmes I still rate Ali's performance as indicative of him being very much world class and a fifteen round handful for anyone.

As for Spinks, it all came too early..........the success, money and drugs. But in that first fight he was in superb athletic shape. His fifteen round stamina was quite something. As for Ali's performance in their second fight; what impressed me was the shape he was in......the early signs of Parkinsons that were starting to invade his speech and mannerisms in interviews clearly were starting to affect his reflexes and punch accuracy. But his speed of foot, dancing, and mobility were still very much there for a lot of the fifteen rounds.

It is a cliché that post Manilla Ali didn't dance and fought everybody flatfooted, Spinks 2 had Ali shuffling and showing similar mobility to Frazier 2. It is undoubtedly the style he'd have taken to a fight with prime Liston.....even at 36. I'm not saying it would be enough to beat Liston; but he'd almost certainly win a number of rounds and last the distance.

[Anthony342]

Does your band play any other songs? Because once the shock value of your ignorance wears off, it just becomes repetitive stupidity.

Repetitive Stupidity, I think I saw that band play the Nassau Coliseum once.