Why can't Gene Tunney be the GOAT?

[dan_cov]

Harry Greb is ranked so high but Tunney beat him several times and went was it 3-1-1 with him?

There is actual footage of Tunney who was very skilled

He went 80-1 & beat Greb multiple times, Dempsey, destroyed Gibbons, Carpentier, etc

Why is he ranked so poorly? I mean I know hes ranked high but surely he should rank higher? I mean for me Marciano beat a load of old fogies, would he of beaten Tunney? From tape alone I have to doubt it. Is his record as impressive as Tunneys?

Sure Greb might rank higher due to his record but didn't Tunney clatter him multiple times then retire? Do people play too much on Grebs longevity?

Why is Tunney ranked so low, genuine question as my boxing history knowledge is quite poor but I consider Tunney an exceptional fighter who may not get is due really.
Thanks in advance. I'd love to know more about Gene Tunney, hes one of the early pioneers I can truly appreciate

[SBleeder]

Greb was half blind in every fight with Tunney.

I rank Tunney in my top 15 all time, the 3rd greatest LHW, behind only Charles and Moore.

[Bolo Punch]

I think it's probably down (in part) to the fact that there's no footage of Greb fighting. It gives him some sort of mysterious aura since the only thing to judge his career on is his resume alone.

For the record, I for one am not particularly sold on ranking fighters like Greb high on ATG P4P lists. I just think it's too hard to judge him on resume alone to warrant placing him in the top 10 or 20 of the greatest fighters ever, especially when there's 100+ years of history following his career, but that's just my opinion.

[bklynboy]

Harry Greb is ranked so high but Tunney beat him several times and went was it 3-1-1 with him?

There is actual footage of Tunney who was very skilled

He went 80-1 & beat Greb multiple times, Dempsey, destroyed Gibbons, Carpentier, etc

Why is he ranked so poorly? I mean I know hes ranked high but surely he should rank higher? I mean for me Marciano beat a load of old fogies, would he of beaten Tunney? From tape alone I have to doubt it. Is his record as impressive as Tunneys?

Sure Greb might rank higher due to his record but didn't Tunney clatter him multiple times then retire? Do people play too much on Grebs longevity?

Why is Tunney ranked so low, genuine question as my boxing history knowledge is quite poor but I consider Tunney an exceptional fighter who may not get is due really.
Thanks in advance. I'd love to know more about Gene Tunney, hes one of the early pioneers I can truly appreciate

I'm a big Tunney fan but ultimately his record in the heavyweight division is sparse. He retired at 30 at the peak of his game. I think that he could have ruled the heavyweight division for 3-4 years, fighting 3-5 /yr. Had he done that then he would be ranked far higher than he is now. But he chose to marry a rich socialite instead. Can't say I blame him.

Regardless it affects his ranking as an ATG.

[lparm]

The long count comes to mind.

He was flattened but for a new rule that prevented Dempsey from regaining the title giving Tunney about 15 seconds to get up from the KD.

[Ray Corso]

Technique and style with form thats Tunney! When you list the top ten guys in any division their all able to beat one another! Thats what greatness affords them! One isn;t that much better than the other, what one may lack he makes up for it in another way! Ali wasn't a one punch guy but when he hit you with 30 combinations over 8 rounds it worked the same as getting taken out with one shot in the 7th!!!! All the top ten heavies are Great!!!
Ray.

[JAB5239]

The long count comes to mind.

He was flattened but for a new rule that prevented Dempsey from regaining the title giving Tunney about 15 seconds to get up from the KD.

You do do it was Dempsey who implemented that rule for that fight, right? And Tunney wasn't hurt badly. Kind of like Douglas vs Tyson.

[Barn]

A lot of people think the series went 2-2-1, split evenly. Tunney even admitted one of the fights shouldn't have went in his favour, here's an older post of mine on some of the fights.

Tunney 1st fight : "I had never bled so much before, nor have I since. For most of this fight, I saw Greb as a red-filmed phantom bouncing before me. When the 12th round ended. I believed it was a good time to take a swallow of orange juice and brandy. I had no sooner done so when the ring started swirling around. I had never taken anything during the fight up to that time. Nor did I ever again. When the thirteenth round started, I saw two bobbing red opponents rushing in at me. I don;t know to this day how I ever survived."

Damon Runyon: "Fighters who lose fights have cut eyes, broken noses, torn lips and broken bones. Tonight, Gene Tunney simply had a broken face
(). He had no business being around for the full 15 rounds but, he was and you have to take your hat off to this boy. He has the kind of courage of which great champions are made."


William Muldoon of fight II(NYC boxing commis) "The decision in Tunney's favour was simply unjustifiable"

Gene Tunney on fight II - "No one was surprised as I when Joe Humphreys lifted my hand in token of victory. Greb relentlessly battered me around the ring from the sixth to the twelfth round. They told me in my corner I was losing and that if I wanted to win I would have to capture the remaining rounds or knock him out. In sheer desperation I came out at the start of the twelfth and luckily hit Greb with a long right on the cheekbone that had everything I had in it. It knocked him to the ropes, he slowed up considerably. Fight, fight; hit, hit. I kept on repeating to myself - and did. Realizing there was some justice in his claim of a bad decision I offered him a return engagement."

They fought a third time ten months later and Tunney won clearly.

Greb: Post fight 5th fight: "You've become a helluva good fighter, Gene. Tonight you hurt me more than I was ever hurt before, and I'm lucky I was still around at the end of 10 rounds. You'd stop me for sure next time, I'm satisfied to call it quits as far as fightign you is concerned."

Greb on Tunney vs Dempsey: " I fought them both-Dempsey only in the gymnasium but, for the kill- and Gene's too smart for him, He'll counter-punch him silly. He's tough as hell too and the best body puncher I ever fought.

To the shock of most it turned out Greb was indeed correct.

Sources: Kings of the Ring: The History of Heavyweight Boxing. - Gavin Evans.

[rightsideup]

I think Greb rate's higher than tunney in the p4p rating's because he is smaller fought Gene fairly evenly head to head and had more fights. I think it is no shame to Gene's legacy to be rated lower than greb p4p. They both are Great fighters!!!!

[mickey malone]

Harry Greb is ranked so high but Tunney beat him several times and went was it 3-1-1 with him?

There is actual footage of Tunney who was very skilled

He went 80-1 & beat Greb multiple times, Dempsey, destroyed Gibbons, Carpentier, etc

Why is he ranked so poorly? I mean I know hes ranked high but surely he should rank higher? I mean for me Marciano beat a load of old fogies, would he of beaten Tunney? From tape alone I have to doubt it. Is his record as impressive as Tunneys?

Sure Greb might rank higher due to his record but didn't Tunney clatter him multiple times then retire? Do people play too much on Grebs longevity?

Why is Tunney ranked so low, genuine question as my boxing history knowledge is quite poor but I consider Tunney an exceptional fighter who may not get is due really.
Thanks in advance. I'd love to know more about Gene Tunney, hes one of the early pioneers I can truly appreciate

I don't think he's the goat, but Tunney was one of the smoothest and coolest champs there's ever been.. Easily took 19 of the 20 rounds he fought with Dempsey, and although i feel he's underrated by most, but other than Greb and Dempsey, he had only a handful of fights in the top company.. The younger Tunney tended to cherry pick, and therefore has'nt really fought enough atg's to qualify as the goat.. Still a great fighter though. Was no10 hw on my list for years, but had a better resume at lhwt really.