Universal Healthcare would really be great

[ILLuminato]

I would like a system in which people aren't FORCED into socialized medical care. If you have insurance and want to pay for it then perfect. I am more concerned with people that can't afford it. People below the poverty line.

Every human being should be allowed basic health care. Especially in a country like the U.S where there is the money, it's just how wise we are in using it.

Welfare does provide some forms of healthcare.... however first of all nobody should be below that poverty line in America. Nobody can say that there is no opportunity in America to succeed. The reason why most kids are poor is because their parents are poor. You've got deadbeat parents and guys in the projects....this is a good article about that:

A urine smell permeated the stairwell. In the darkness, due to smashed light bulbs,Lloyd Marcus as a child the sound of broken wine bottles underfoot echoed off the concrete walls. I was nine years old. With the elevators out of service half of the time due to vandalism, many times I was forced to take the scary trek into the shadow of death up the stairwell to our sixth floor apartment in the projects of East Baltimore.

This was a far cry from the brand spanking new building we moved into just two years earlier. I remember our excitement when my parents, three younger siblings, and I moved in our apartment. It was a dream come true, moving from our leaky roof ghetto into a place where everything, including the appliances, was new. We were one of the first in the eleven story all-black-residents building. While a few people kept their apartments lovely, most seemed committed to destroying the building.

All I kept hearing was that everything was the "white man's fault." Even at age nine, I sarcastically thought to myself, "How can we stop these evil white people from sneaking in here at night peeing in the stairwell, leaving broken wine bottles, smashing the light bulbs and attacking people?"

My early experience living in the government project taught me that some folks simply have a ghetto mindset. I also witnessed the trap of government welfare.

And why were so many around me angry and violent despite getting free housing, food and health care?

It was the late 50s when my Dad was one of the first blacks to break the color barrier into the Baltimore Fire Dept. The sight of him in his crisp dress blue firefighter's uniform made everyone proud, though none more than me. With Dad's new job, the government raised our rent to $72 per month. I remember my dad saying, "Seventy-two dollars! They must be crazy. We're movin'!"

We moved to a suburban black community. I truly believe I would not be who I am today had we stayeLloyd Marcusd in the projects.

Several of my cousins stayed enslaved to the system and the bigotry of low expectations. Because true self esteem comes from personal achievement, they possessed very little. They lived angry and bitter lives consumed with serial impregnating, out of wedlock births and substance abuse. An outrageously high number died prematurely.

So when I hear politicians pandering to the so-called poor of America, it turns my stomach. I've witnessed the deterioration of the human spirit, wasted lives and suffering that happens when government becomes 'daddy'.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Welfare does provide some forms of healthcare.... however first of all nobody should be below that poverty line in America. Nobody can say that there is no opportunity in America to succeed. The reason why most kids are poor is because their parents are poor. You've got deadbeat parents and guys in the projects....this is a good article about that:

There are places in America that aren't booming economically you know....

Cities and entire towns that have fallen because of the bad economy, not just now but the past. Yes I will agree with you that in the U.S there is opportunity but there will never be a society where there is no one under the poverty line.....ever. Utopia does not exist and will never exist.

There are many reasons why there is poverty, drug use, alcoholism etc. Because of the very cycle that was described in the article you posted. That's why people are products of their enviroments and the cycle of ignorance continues on and on.

Unemployment is at an all time high right now, almost 10% nation wide. This is not because people are lazy, it's because there is no work and companies are laying people off by the thousands every week.

[ILLuminato]

There are places in America that aren't booming economically you know....

Cities and entire towns that have fallen because of the bad economy, not just now but the past. Yes I will agree with you that in the U.S there is opportunity but there will never be a society where there is no one under the poverty line.....ever. Utopia does not exist and will never exist.

There are many reasons why there is poverty, drug use, alcoholism etc. Because of the very cycle that was described in the article you posted. That's why people are products of their enviroments and the cycle of ignorance continues on and on.

Unemployment is at an all time high right now, almost 10% nation wide. This is not because people are lazy, it's because there is no work and companies are laying people off by the thousands every week.

At least 2-3% of that 10% are willingly unemployed. The government coming in and raising kids never fixed anything. Unemployment and welfare are 2 different things.

Anyways, the welfare checks are like 6k a year and the poverty line is 11k. This leaves the wasted hanging out in the projects all day and ruining the land around htem.....and this lifestyle is supported by the government.

There will never be a country with no poor but the U.S. is an awfully prosperous nation, and this notion of "change" is totally ridiculous.

[P4P Opinion]

I've heard the number befor.e I'm sure if you did your research you would find very similar if not the same numbers.

You want me to do research to prove you right or wrong? That's not how it works. If you're going to make a factual claim, you have to back it up. I am not saying you are necessarily wrong, but I want proof that you are or you aren't.

Second: How does that not prove anything?

It only proves that breast cancer treatment under universal healthcare takes longer; it doesn't necessarily prove that every treatment takes longer. This is all presuming of course that your first, unverified fact is correct.

Third: Now you seem to agree that the average time for waiting is higher(though you said that the average waiting time doesn't prove anything), but the proportion of people who die from cancer in the UK is much higher than that in the U.S. It goes against human nature to wait to get treated, so you would get raped by the private doctors prices. The system would be much less effective in hte U.S.

I agree that the average time for waiting is probably going to be higher, due to having more people to care for - unlike in a privatised healthcare system like in the US where many people get no healthcare at all. Again, I want a source for your claim that the death rate from cancer is much higher in the UK than the US. That is a bold claim.

You really need some critical thinking lessons. It would be far better to debate with someone who could stay relevant.

[ILLuminato]

You want me to do research to prove you right or wrong? That's not how it works. If you're going to make a factual claim, you have to back it up. I am not saying you are necessarily wrong, but I want proof that you are or you aren't.



It only proves that breast cancer treatment under universal healthcare takes longer; it doesn't necessarily prove that every treatment takes longer. This is all presuming of course that your first, unverified fact is correct.



I agree that the average time for waiting is probably going to be higher, due to having more people to care for - unlike in a privatised healthcare system like in the US where many people get no healthcare at all. Again, I want a source for your claim that the death rate from cancer is much higher in the UK than the US. That is a bold claim.

You really need some critical thinking lessons. It would be far better to debate with someone who could stay relevant.

57 percent of Canadians seeking consultations with a specialist wait four weeks or more to be seen, compared to 23 percent in the United States. In Canada, 21 percent of 50 year old women wait more than three weeks for biopsies to determine the presence of breast cancer, compared with one percent of Americans. Next came Britain. Hannity said that according to a 2006 report from the British Department of Health, "... at any given time there are more than 900,000 Brits waiting for admission to the National Health Services hospitals."

That's a report of the show I heard it from.... of course the site is liberally biased and blotched out the real good stuff, but the number speaks for themselves.

Here's a graph of Canadian wait times by province:
http://cco.iftydev.pcsnap.com/cms/one.aspx?pageId=37722

[Vladimir303]

I'm all for getting rid of Firemen. Privatize that *****. Let private citizens make small businesses out of making fire department stations in their communities.

Use that money they shell out on Firemen employers and retirees benefits.....for universal healthcare if it can be done.

What's more likely that your community needs all year round, a fire department to put out some shmuck's burning house....or the majority of the community need to go the hospital but hesitating because they can't afford it unless it's really really bad.

[D-MiZe]

That's a report of the show I heard it from.... of course the site is liberally biased and blotched out the real good stuff, but the number speaks for themselves.

Here's a graph of Canadian wait times by province:
http://cco.iftydev.pcsnap.com/cms/one.aspx?pageId=37722

The reason why the wait time is so high is because of the NHS.

[ILLuminato]

The reason why the wait time is so high is because of the NHS.

Can you explain how the NHS is different than any other form of government healthcare?