who among suspected PED user got away the most: Pacquaio, Mayweather or Marquez?

[travestyny]

hate? yes, maybe hate...

but perhaps, in most people's mind, floyd did what he did in more suspicious circumstances....than pac and jmm....say, like having the iv at his home? and having no real justification for having the iv.....

our exchanges on the topic have been very enjoyable and informative...

cheers!

It's possible. I can't speak for anyone else.

Cheers, mate!

[ADP02]

Apparently, you were unable to follow me. Maybe I didn't make it clear. Why would the doctor be amazed when seeing pictures of his movement. You said the doctor talked about how great a condition his muscles were in, so why would he be amazed? Can you answer that?

Sorry but you were not able to follow. These words came out of Arum's mouth. You can take it many ways but why do you think that Arum would be
presenting this in a way that made you think that it was to tell the world that Manny's doctor thought it was impossible .... and may I remind you, you believe Arum and the doctor are in on this. Plus, you do not include the rest of what Arum said.

Amazing, right?
"Arum also confirmed that Pacquiao is recovering well after surgery and is on track for a comeback.”

You know what you don't like? YOU DON'T LIKE THAT MANNY SAID HE WAS HEALED BY SALT WATER AND GOD! YOU BLATANTLY TRIED TO TWIST THIS INTO HIM MEANING HIS SCAR WAS HEALED!!!!! He obviously wasn't talking about this, so please stop trying to pretend that you haven't been trying to spin every damn piece of evidence that you get. That statement was laughable and embarrassing, and you know it.

1) but later when he gets examined by a doctor, what does Manny say? What did the doctor say? You do not like what they say.

2) How many times do I need to tell you this. I said that only Manny can tell you exactly what he meant. AGAIN, you wanted scenarios and I presented
several scenarios. Scenarios differed. Yet now you are taking all that and playing with it.

Well, go back and check what you said about FLoyd. You gave several scenarios. I understood that they cannot all be the right one and only Floyd would know. All I can do is agree or disagree with all the scenarios you presented and why. You are stuck on one scenario but do not like that I presented you with other ones ....

Arum also said Manny was unprofessional and has to have rehab for an injury of that nature. What do you have to say about that? So after **** hits the fan, then he goes and has an MRI. After already swimming in the ocean and playing basketball. You are ridiculous.

Sorry but its your speculation that is the problem. Its you that thinks that is why Manny went but that is a false statement. Its false just like your other points.

Think for a second. Manny says he is healed and then gets the doctor to say that he is improving but not healed. Why would that be a good thing?
Think again. Even though the doctor said he is not fully healed, Manny still plays basketball? I thought you said Manny was trying to cover up his
tracks? Does it really look like Manny cares what people like you think?

Roach points it out in an interview. He said that except for some passive rehab early on, he was not getting help for rehab and doing it on his own but later he was.

hahahahahah. YOU ARE RIDICULOUS. THIS IS A CLEAR LIE THAT HE'S CAUGHT IN AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DEFEND IT!!! IT IS BLATANT.

Quote #1: I was not 100%
Quote #2: I'm not saying I'm not 100%

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY TRYING TO SAY THIS WASN'T A BLATANT LIE!!!!!!! STOP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF!!!!

The point is that TEAM PAC HAS BEEN CAUGHT IN LIES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE!

Again, I gave you several possible scenarios including that he possibly lied due to his concern about being sued. You are just stuck with this and

do not know what to do with it or what it even means.
THINK: How can it help Manny's case to later say that he was OK as far as your speculation goes? Just from that, you should have ruled out your speculation a long time ago. It just does not add up.

BUT when it comes to Floyd you are willing to defend FLoyd's lies:
"Giving urine contributed to my dehydration"
"Giving (a teaspoon) of blood (10 days before) contributed to my dehydration"

Of course that is different for you. You are OK with those lies because its Floyd. According to you, Floyd is not a doctor and knows nothing about
DEHYDRATION but Manny should know better because he is an experienced doctor. HA!

BLAME? I'm giving him credit for his post. It's spot on. Let's go through how you try to spin it.

Manny raising his arms? What is spot on when a doctor is saying that pain and shoulder movements are not a good predictor? That shoots what that poster said down and you for agreeing!

Go check out Floyd and how he can raise his arms, punch, hook, elbow, combos with no flinching .... It must have all been a lie. Oh wait, that is different because you believe when FLoyd speaks.

Freddie Roach went on record saying he was fine when warming up for the fight. So why did he need Toradol? How are you going to spin that? It was also stated that he injured it during the 3rd round (later the story changed to the 4th round). So why no record of him mentioning it can be found? He tore it in the 4th round, yet didn't say anything and didn't need to because it was already known...only it was only partially torn at that point and not fully torn...and only it felt 100% according to Pacquaio before the fight. LMAO. Hmmm.

Fine is a relative term to mean fine enough to fight BUT does not mean that Manny's doctor would agree with everything was fine. They went to see

the doctor and the doctor concluded that there was a tear. Kobe too said he was injured way before that game but he was fine enough to play with an

injury for a while.

No records? The meds are on the pre-fight form. Manny visited a doctor. You think it was just for the fun of it? Manny stopped sparring for days.

Reports say for at least a week. Sparring partners admit to that. USADA knew about the drugs being used. Doctor even said that there was a tear

beforehand.

What do you have before the IV scandal that makes you think that Floyd was severely dehydrated? HA!
Did you hear Floyd say so? Vital signs? What indication did you see? Yet, you believe Floyd with actually NO PROOF!!! WHooa!!!


Here is Manny's S/C stating that Manny did complain about it in the corner.

"Manny said, my shoulder is done":

3:00 mark

hahahahaha. So he tears up his shoulder during the fight, and you argue that they just go on as if nothing happened? It started to bleed out according to you, yet they just go on as if nothing happens????? hahahahah. Please tell me more!

As stated above, Manny did bring it up in the corner.

hahahahahaha. Is that what he said after the fight, because I remember something along the lines of "if he would have stood still, I could have hit him." I don't remember anything about not being able to throw effective punches. lol. Give me a fuvking break. So I don't know anything, yet YOU know that he felt pain (that he didn't show) and was not able to throw effective punches. Do you know that, according to your own logic? lol. More bull**** that you're stepping in. Please tell me more!

So you do not remember. That is all that needed to be said.

Manny also said that Floyd knew before the fight about his injury and that is why Floyd pulled on the injured shoulder. You forgot that too?

You really should stop bringing up Floyd/Castillo. It was clear that he had a problem with his shoulder in that fight. How about in Pacquaio/Mayweather? Was it clear? Nope. Didn't think so.

Why was it clear? Because Floyd said so? If it was so clear, did Castillo know about Floyd's injury? Nope!

They said his shoulder was all better. He threw the same punches in the Bradley fight. His punch total had nothing to do with Mayweather's defense? It was about his shoulder? Riiiight.

You brought up this silly speculation but now that I showed you some stats, you deflect ...... got it.

1. His LYING team tells you he went to see a doctor.

2. So he wanted to abuse toradol during training camp. It makes sense. He wanted to abuse it during the fight, too.

3. USADA knew he was taking pain medication. They were legal and USADA said he could take them. What does this prove? He could have at his toradol.

4. The meds were pain killers. One of which is a very powerful pain killer. Why couldn't Manny stick with local pain killers if it was specifically for his shoulder? Hmmm.

5. They notified NSAC when their doctor tried to shoot him up with Toradol and NSAC said no. They also claimed he was 100% before going into the fight, right? So what was the need for Toradol? lol. Spin that.

So you agree that they are PAIN KILLERs. So why shoot your right shoulder and possibly limit your movement?



.

[ADP02]

Wow. This was absolutely pathetic. Is that the best that you can do? Did you even try?

1. HE STATED CLEARLY THAT HE NEVER WENT TO REHAB. Arum said he was unprofessional FOR NOT GOING TO REHAB. What is there not to understand? Your response to this point was more like a non-response.

2. It is A FACT that he said he was cured by god via salt water from the ocean. Is that not a fact? Seems like you failed to refute that claim. How did I twist it into something else? Sorry, that was YOU when you said he meant it was about his scar. lol. Strike 2 for you.

3. Freddie Roach said Pac did go to rehab within those 3 months. I stated this means either Pacquaio is lying or Freddie is lying. THAT IS A FACT. ONE OF THEM OBVIOUSLY HAS TO BE LYING. Now try to use your brain. Who do you think is lying? Why would Freddie Roach call Pacquaio, find out what doctor he was being treated by in the Phils, call him and talk to him, all wen Manny has gone on record stating that he never went to rehab. lol. BULL**** If you can't see past that bull****, you really are an idiot. Strike 3 for you.

4. Roach said Pacquiao was joking about being healed by God. If he were indeed joking, would that make it a lie? Joking = not being honest, right? Now, you still haven't used common sense. I'll ask again. Would the deeply religious Pacquaio lie about God healing his wound? What do you think? Strike #4. You aren't doing too well.

FACT: Studies show that a lot of this can be done on your own!!!

2/3/4. Even Roach confirms that except for some passive rehab, there was no rehab except Manny's own rehab. Then later on, Roach tells Manny that he
has to do rehab, not just on his own and Manny does.

5. I never said he didn't have surgery. I believe I did say that the injury was greatly exaggerated, if there were one. Funny how you didn't mention the video and photographic evidence that point 5 mentions. I think you addressed that later, so I'll discuss this then.

HAHAHA funny stuff. Now you are realizing that you were speculating. Is that you "old" travestyny? HAHAHA


I thought it was partial tear and you told me it was worse ...... OK, its worse. THANKS for the info.

6. Speculation is your forte, no? Didn't you speculate to make the leap from Floyd taking the IV to Floyd abusing PED's? Didn't you speculate that Manny was talking about his scar when he said his wound was healed? What did I speculate in point #6. Oh, a PHYSICAL THERAPIST EXPERT AND INJURY ANALYST TALKED TO THE SURGEON THAT PERFORMED THE SURGERY, CAME BACK, AND SOMEHOW MISREPORTED THE INJURY. Someone got confused. Why is there so much misinformation and blatant lies with this team? You won't address that.

There is enough evidence to prove that Floyd did not require an IV. You wanted to see what a fake doctor had written even though Floyd thanks Dr Ariza. Now I find out that you wouldn't even believe in a renowned doctor yet a no-named doctor you believe? That is all you have!!!

Oh really? I've asked before. Can you find any evidence from anyone that says swimming after one month of full thickness rotator cuff surgery is possible? Does anyone online recommend waving a flag over your head after 1 month? Does anyone recommend playing basketball after 3 months. I GAVE YOU EVIDENCE FROM A VARIETY OF SOURCES SHOWING THAT SWIMMING AND BASKETBALL ARE BOTH BAD FOR ROTATOR CUFFS. You have no comeback for that. All you say is that all injuries are different. THE DOCTOR SAID HE TORE 1 LIGAMENT COMPLETELY AND PERHAPS HALF OF ANOTHER ONE. And you think he should be swimming at 1 month? You aren't that bright, are you?

I already told you none of that is impossible and gave you some info but you didn't take that info and spoke the way you did yet .....
Anyway, Like I said, you are not an expert with this. Studies have proved you can do it (water rehab) in place of regular rehab and it can be just as good.

Look up aquatic rehab. It can be started even before 1 month. So go check a mirror next time you talk the way you do! HA! Then just come back and retract your comments.

hahahaahaha. So swimming and playing basketball is passive exercises for someone who is recovering from a full thickness rotator cuff tear? Please. HIS OWN SURGEON WARNS AGAINST THESE TWO SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES!!!! YOU CAN'T SPIN THIS!

Passive exercises is not forever. It can be for weeks then its active exercises .... and like I told you, yes, aquatic rehab can be done very early.

1. Show me a study that says you should swim IN THE SEA ONE MONTH AFTER SURGERY FOR A FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY. I'd love to read that.
2. Go read about swimmer's shoulder.
3. Review Dr. Neal ElAttrache's video and tell me why he shows someone swimming when talking about activities that are bad for rotator cuffs.
4. I showed YOU medical information that says swimming is NOT good for rehabilitation of a shoulder tear, and is even HARMFUL.

You are being dramatic about this but from what I saw in that video there is nothing really there. Like I said, look up aquatic rehab.
They have done lots of studies on FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF injuries and questioned which was best ..... and concluded that aquatic rehab was good too.


SWIMMING: This is too general and it is confusing you. I already told you that. You laughed when I asked you a simple question. What kind of swimming did Manny do? If he is using fins and his feet to do swimming then that is OK. Some upper body exercises are OK as I have read because they
said it was OK to do aquatic rehab.

1. Dr. Neale ElAttrache mentions in video that the rotator cuff heals slowly. You claimed arthroscopic repair would allow him to swim or play basketball early. Doesn't seem the doctor agrees for various reasons I've already given you.
2. You mention all that the doctor was aware of, and yet he was still amazed at Pacquaio's photos showing off his movement at that stage of recovery. lol
3. I love that you bring up arthroscopic surgery because all it does is make me think of those little three dots of a scar that you claimed Manny was talking about when he said his wound is healed. Ridiculous, you must admit, and shows YOUR desperation.

Like I said, you are wrong and interpreting all this incorrectly.

Its like you freaking out about doing an activity early on. It can be done for some people.
You couldn't believe that they do range of motion exercises early on but they do.
You couldn't believe they use weights but they do.

- but early on it may be light weights while later it would can be heavier weights.
- but early it would be gentle swimming type exercises later it can be more aggressive exercises


There you go again grasping. I told you that only Manny can tell you what he meant .... then you twist the words to mean something else even though I have clarified all this.

Very simple. SHOW ME ONE MEDICAL REPORT THAT SAYS YOU CAN GO SWIMMING AFTER ONE MONTH OF FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY. I can show you plenty that say you can NOT go swimming after 1 month of rotator cuff surgery. And mind you, we are talking about IN THE OCEAN, so don't bring up your son in his kiddie pool again. Go. Bring that study to me! Because I know I can bring you the opposite information.

Manny was moving his legs with fins. You want me to show you a study doing that too even though his injury had to do with his right shoulder? HA!

I've already addressed this with the other idiot I destroyed. These studies are clearly about people living with the injuries. That is obvious. THIS IS NOT ABOUT SOMEONE IN A PROFESSIONAL PRIZE FIGHT THROWING RIGHT HANDS REPEATEDLY TO THE POINT THAT 1 TENDON RIPS OFF THE BONE AND ANOTHER ONE RIPS IN HALF, AND THE SHOULDER BEGINS TO BLEED. You can do much better than this, can't you?

Sorry but you showed me a picture of Manny raising his hands after a fight and playing "GOT YOU". Was that an example of a prize fight?

The doctor's response was clear. Just say you do not understand or the obvious answer is that you were completely wrong.

Manny had pain but he still had what appeared to be decent range of motion. The doctor confirmed that so you cannot look at it like a pretend internet doctor would.


Also, its funny that you make it sound like the injury occurred "shoulder begins to bleed". tendon ripped off but then you say the rest is not possible, which is contrary to what I pointed out to you.

Also, how did you measure Manny's strength from his shots? I also gave you stats that pointed that Manny did not throw as many right hooks. I'm sure that certain punches were more painful than others so he avoided using them as much. You tend to compensate.

[ADP02]

You have been proven wrong and will not admit it. That's sad but I understand.....

Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.

You can't pick and choose which lie to believe about the injury. You're only fooling yourself.

Facts are if they are lying about it, which has been undoubtedly proven they all have lied at some point, then **** whatever else they say about the injury. They are lying and trying to cover it up.

Common sense.

People have given different scenarios including trying to cover up so he does not get sued and to protect himself from NSAC. He could have just been clarifying his earlier statements .... but the most far fetched is this story that Manny was not injured and fabricated all this. Got a renowned doctor to go along with this and so on.

Disappointed but I predicted that you would go from
"You need 100% of the information or else its speculation to, Manny lied so that means that he faked his injury."

Thanks for proving me right on this one.


BUT when it comes to Floyd you are willing to defend Floyd's lies:
"Giving urine contributed to my dehydration"
"Giving (a teaspoon) of blood (10 days before) contributed to my dehydration"


You still trust this guy's words?

[ADP02]

?

Common sense.

Common sense would be to be consistent and call all that speculation but you both did not.


If you followed, Manny was not sparring at one point in time. Now add that plus the below video and its quite clear that Manny had an injured right shoulder.


LA Times interview BEFORE THE FIGHT -
Roach said "We did 12 rounds of left hand only. The right hand was never used. Its about putting everything together."


Video points out that he never heard of this type of training before except when a fighter is injured. Now we know why.






.

[Dosumpthin]

People have given different scenarios including trying to cover up so he does not get sued and to protect himself from NSAC. He could have just been clarifying his earlier statements .... but the most far fetched is this story that Manny was not injured and fabricated all this. Got a renowned doctor to go along with this and so on.

Disappointed but I predicted that you would go from
"You need 100% of the information or else its speculation to, Manny lied so that means that he faked his injury."

Thanks for proving me right on this one.


BUT when it comes to Floyd you are willing to defend Floyd's lies:
"Giving urine contributed to my dehydration"
"Giving (a teaspoon) of blood (10 days before) contributed to my dehydration"


You still trust this guy's words?

Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.

[ADP02]

BUT when it comes to Floyd you are willing to defend Floyd's lies:
"Giving urine contributed to my dehydration"
"Giving (a teaspoon) of blood (10 days before) contributed to my dehydration"


You still trust this guy's words?

Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.

Thanks for admitting that you understand this
but
YOU cannot admit that that is what some of you Floyd fans did when defending Floyd:

BUT when it comes to Floyd you are willing to defend Floyd's lies:
"Giving urine contributed to my dehydration"
"Giving (a teaspoon) of blood (10 days before) contributed to my dehydration"

[Dosumpthin]

Thanks for admitting that you understand this
but
YOU cannot admit that that is what some of you Floyd fans did when defending Floyd:

BUT when it comes to Floyd you are willing to defend Floyd's lies:
"Giving urine contributed to my dehydration"
"Giving (a teaspoon) of blood (10 days before) contributed to my dehydration"

You are blinded by hate and self deception.

You are speculating that Floyd was "lying".
I have pointed out that you don't have the necessary information to determine if Floyd. And USADA "lied". Floyd providing a guess at what contributed to his dehydrated state is self diagnosis - at worst it is an incorrect statement. Floyd is only capable of accurately describing his symptoms.

We are providing conflicting statements - not speculation- given by those who have relevant information and the medical credentials to speak about the nature and healing process of Manny injury.
They are lying about it. Fact.

You rationalized scenarios that make it ok for them to lie when where and how the injury happened.

Self deception.

And fyi - pain killers don't "restore movement in the arm" - Pain killers reduce pain. Screwing tendons to bones restores movement.

[travestyny]

These words came out of Arum's mouth. You can take it many ways but why do you think that Arum would be presenting this in a way that made you think that it was to tell the world that Manny's doctor thought it was impossible .... and may I remind you, you believe Arum and the doctor are in on this.

You misunderstand. The point is not that Arum is presenting it in a way to portray that the doctor thinks it is impossible. The point is that it clearly shows that the doctor is amazed, shocked, blown away, any other synonym that I listed before because Manny's recovery is beyond even what the doctor thought it could be at that stage. With everything else that took place before the fight, during the fight, and after the fight, doesn't that hit you as even a little bit fishy? Arum knows that the statement Pac made and the activities he did are super fishy, and he knows Pac would be attacked and this statement shows that even he couldn't defend his actions. What else could he say??? That the doctor admits it's a crock of ****? No. He said that Manny seems fine, the doctor said it's incredible and needs to see it for himself. There was really no where else left for him to go with it, and it reeks of suspicion.

Amazing, right?
"Arum also confirmed that Pacquiao is recovering well after surgery and is on track for a comeback.”

Are you talking about what he said after **** hit the fan? What did he say in the midst of all of this shoulder scandal? I'm not interested in damage control.

1) but later when he gets examined by a doctor, what does Manny say? What did the doctor say? You do not like what they say.

Damage control (def.) - action taken to limit the damaging effects of an accident or error.

2) How many times do I need to tell you this. I said that only Manny can tell you exactly what he meant. AGAIN, you wanted scenarios and I presented
[B]several scenarios.

Again, you misunderstand. I asked what YOU thought the statement meant. You said he meant that his scar was healed. You know damn well that he didn't mean that, so you provided a ****ty scenario that is laughable. No one took it to mean that, so why is your scenario relevant at all? You know damn well what he meant, but you deflect by saying I have to ask him. His statement is clear. There is no reason to ask him. You can interpret Floyd's statements, but when it comes to Manny's statements, you become a dumb dumb?

Think for a second. Manny says he is healed and then gets the doctor to say that he is improving but not healed. Why would that be a good thing?

I can answer why it would be a good thing:
Damage control (def.) - action taken to limit the damaging effects of an accident or error.

Think again. Even though the doctor said he is not fully healed, Manny still plays basketball? I thought you said Manny was trying to cover up his
tracks? Does it really look like Manny cares what people like you think?

The video of Manny playing basketball was before this visit to the doctor. He then rejoined the league and played full contact afterward because he doesn't care what people like me think or what people like you think. Is he going to sit around pretending to heal when he is fully capable of doing what he loves? That would be boring. Arum found out that he couldn't count on Manny to continue the charade. Manny thought "**** everyone, I'll do what I want. I can always say God healed me."

Roach points it out in an interview. He said that except for some passive rehab early on, he was not getting help for rehab and doing it on his own but later he was.

So you admit that Manny was not going to rehab early on? I thought you quoted Roach as saying he talked to the doctor that was doing rehab with him. This was at the time that Pac went on record saying he wasn't doing rehab. So, are you now admitting that Roach was lying?

He was "doing it on his own," perceivably by swimming in the sea. And when you read that, it just sounds like no problem, huh?

Again, I gave you several possible scenarios including that he possibly lied due to his concern about being sued.
THINK: How can it help Manny's case to later say that he was OK as far as your speculation goes? Just from that, you should have ruled out your speculation a long time ago. It just does not add up.

Again, you misunderstand the point. I don't care why he lied. The point that I am bringing up is that he clearly lied. There is a pattern of lies with his team from Arum, Roach, to Manny himself. If you can't see this, I don't know what to tell you, because the lies are right in front of your eyes.

Manny should know better because he is an experienced doctor. HA!

Have you been paying attention??? It's not just what Manny said. It's the visual proof that shows something is amiss. You have no ground to stand on when all of the evidence is presented to you together.

Manny raising his arms? What is spot on when a doctor is saying that pain and shoulder movements are not a good predictor? That shoots what that poster said down and you for agreeing!

You are confused. We are talking about after the surgery, not living with and dealing with the injury. At the stage that he should have been just beginning to restrengthen his shoulder, he is in a photo raising a flag over his head. His arm is clearly raised over his head. No sling. Mind you, this is one month out. You can't spin this **** any way you try. You better stay away from rehabilitation guidelines for this surgery.

fine enough to fight BUT does not mean that Manny's doctor would agree
No records? The meds are on the pre-fight form. Manny visited a doctor.
Manny stopped sparring for days.
USADA knew about the drugs being used.
Doctor even said that there was a tear beforehand.

1. Oh Dr. ElAttrache, was it a full partial rotator cuff tear (actually 1.5 tendons as he stated in the video), or a partial rotator cuff tear (that apparently he told the injury analyst that interviewed for ESPN)?

2. He was given pain killers before? Ok. He loves Toradol apparently

3. He went to a doctor before because of it? Hmm. He stopped sparring. Ok. After the fight, his sparring partners say it was because of the shoulder. Question is, can you believe his team that tells so many lies?

4. USADA knew about the drugs he was using. Yep, they did. They didn't need to know why he was using them, nor did they ever say they knew why. They stated the drugs were not illegal and let him have at them. I don't see why this is important to bring up.

What do you have before the IV scandal that makes you think that Floyd was severely dehydrated?

You are still talking about severe dehydration, which is first of all not the issue. We've gone through this already. What you have to prove is that he didn't have a condition that would cause IV rehydration to be more effective than oral dehydration. Did you prove that? If you did not, you have failed.

Here is Manny's S/C stating that Manny did complain about it in the corner.

hahahahahahaha. Give me a break. He says my shoulder is done and that's it? No one mentioned it again, it doesn't effect him using it, no one mentions it until Arum gets him alone? Riiiiight. Do I have to give you the definition of damage control again?

So you do not remember. That is all that needed to be said.

Manny also said that Floyd knew before the fight about his injury

Wowwwww. You are really something. I said I don't remember Manny saying anything about not being able to throw effective punches in the post fight interview because HE DIDN'T SAY THAT!

Second, Floyd said he had people giving him reports from Manny's camp. Roach said he had people giving him reports from Mayweather's camp. Let's get that out of the way first. Second, Floyd, though he went on record saying he knows what Manny was doing in camp, has always denied hearing anything at all about a shoulder injury. Why would he admit he knew everything that was going on (which is a pretty stand up statement) yet get so pissed when people try to bring up the shoulder injury? You believe this lie by Manny?

Why was it clear? Because Floyd said so?

Wowwwwww. Everyone who watched that fight can clearly notice Mayweather complaining about the shoulder. Do you deny this? Why are you playing stupid? (I hope you are playing stupid).

You brought up this silly speculation but now that I showed you some stats, you deflect ...... got it.

There was no deflection. Did Manny stop throwing the right? Yes or no? Look at the 6th round and tell me what you see. By the way, this is AFTER he apparently tore one ligament completely and half of another one. What do you see, buddy?

So you agree that they are PAIN KILLERs. So why shoot your right shoulder and possibly limit your movement?

Limit your movement? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

[travestyny]

FACT: Studies show that a lot of this can be done on your own!!!

2/3/4. Even Roach confirms that except for some passive rehab, there was no rehab except Manny's own rehab. Then later on, Roach tells Manny that he
has to do rehab, not just on his own and Manny does.

On your own, following the doctor's instructions. Swimming doesn't fit the bill, buddy.

HAHAHA funny stuff. Now you are realizing that you were speculating. Is that you "old" travestyny? HAHAHA

My statements have been consistent. I believe this injury was exaggerated, if it existed at all. I also believe he had a "surgery." What I don't know is if it was to repair a partial tear or to go in and look around and pretend something was done. I wouldn't be surprised if most boxers at his stage in their career have some tear in their shoulders. However, his injury does not fit the bill as a full thickness rotator cuff tear, much less 1.5 tendons.

I thought it was partial tear and you told me it was worse ...... OK, its worse. THANKS for the info.

Do you know why you thought it was a partial tear? It's because even you didn't notice any problem with his shoulder.

There is enough evidence to prove that Floyd did not require an IV. You wanted to see what a fake doctor had written even though Floyd thanks Dr Ariza. Now I find out that you wouldn't even believe in a renowned doctor yet a no-named doctor you believe? That is all you have!!!

This is asinine. I'm not saying believe the word of the doctor. I'm saying look at the medical records. Look at the facts. Manny's doctor didn't show the MRI yet, did he?

I already told you none of that is impossible and gave you some info but you didn't take that info and spoke the way you did yet .....
Anyway, Like I said, you are not an expert with this. Studies have proved you can do it (water rehab) in place of regular rehab and it can be just as good.

Look up aquatic rehab. It can be started even before 1 month. So go check a mirror next time you talk the way you do! HA! Then just come back and retract your comments.

Passive exercises is not forever. It can be for weeks then its active exercises .... and like I told you, yes, aquatic rehab can be done very early.

You are being dramatic about this but from what I saw in that video there is nothing really there. Like I said, look up aquatic rehab.
They have done lots of studies on FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF injuries and questioned which was best ..... and concluded that aquatic rehab was good too.

I asked you to please share these studies. Why haven't you? You could have at least posted a link.

Aquatic rehabilitation? lol. I know why you didn't post a link to this. You are kidding me, right? Come on, buddy. Show me what you have on this. I'll let you provide this good laugh for us all instead of me pouncing on it right away.

SWIMMING: This is too general and it is confusing you. I already told you that. You laughed when I asked you a simple question. What kind of swimming did Manny do? If he is using fins and his feet to do swimming then that is OK. Some upper body exercises are OK as I have read because they
said it was OK to do aquatic rehab.

hahahahaha. You're getting there! Show us what you read about aquatic rehabilitation. Please post it up. Then ask yourself, when someone says they went swimming, do they meant.....they went swimming? lol. You are becoming a clown. Give us more!

Like I said, you are wrong and interpreting all this incorrectly.

Its like you freaking out about doing an activity early on. It can be done for some people.
You couldn't believe that they do range of motion exercises early on but they do.
You couldn't believe they use weights but they do.

- but early on it may be light weights while later it would can be heavier weights.
- but early it would be gentle swimming type exercises later it can be more aggressive exercises

If you believe swimming and playing basketball can be done early on, post up your findings. It's very simple. I asked you to do this last time, but you didn't step up.

Don't put words in my mouth about what I couldn't believe, because I never said I couldn't believe any of that. You are getting desperate. I am well aware of the rehabilitation protocol for this surgery. If you would care to post up your findings, that would be great. I can post up mine and we can compare notes. What do you say?

Manny was moving his legs with fins. You want me to show you a study doing that too even though his injury had to do with his right shoulder? HA!

He was moving his legs with fins? Where did you get that info? Do you mean when he was scuba diving?

Why not? Post any information you have. This may help.

Sorry but you showed me a picture of Manny raising his hands after a fight and playing "GOT YOU". Was that an example of a prize fight?

That was an example of him doing some **** he shouldn't have been doing after surgery. I repeat, after surgery.

The doctor's response was clear. Just say you do not understand or the obvious answer is that you were completely wrong.

Manny had pain but he still had what appeared to be decent range of motion. The doctor confirmed that so you cannot look at it like a pretend internet doctor would.

The doctor did NOT say that someone who rips their shoulder at that specific time would feel no pain and be able to punch painless in a 12 round professional boxing match. Keep spinning. We are talking about when the injury occurred, not living with the injury in everyday life.

Also, its funny that you make it sound like the injury occurred "shoulder begins to bleed". tendon ripped off but then you say the rest is not possible, which is contrary to what I pointed out to you.

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Also, how did you measure Manny's strength from his shots? I also gave you stats that pointed that Manny did not throw as many right hooks. I'm sure that certain punches were more painful than others so he avoided using them as much. You tend to compensate.

Look at the 6th round which is after completely tearing one tendon, according to Manny. Let me know what you see. Then tell me if he ever stopped throwing the right.