In your opinion could Fernando Vargas have been a great?

[Plaster...Sad.]

Trinidad does something that prime Marvin Hagler couldnt do. hilarious. And in Durans prime, at his 2nd best weight. Where he beat the 2nd best Welterweight of all time. Even better!

Its funny, I can make all these arguments against you, but in the end your own actions convey your bias more than anything else.

Trinidad was very obviously hurt. I went ahead and bit, and rewatched the round. turns out Trinidad was obviously rocked. you see his knees give in...particularly his right knee...and he freezes in place in defense, the only punch he throws is the low blow. hell, you clearly see his right leg slip out from underneath him, sending him falling backwards: not to the side, where the momentum of the punch was directing him.

and how in the hell does Trinidad not have a weak chin? The guy was KNOWN for going down in the early rounds. He had a ton of fighting spirit, which is why it was very difficult for fighters to finish the job, but this isnt just some random punch guy were talking about here. this is Roberto Duran, one of the most methodical destroying machines in the history of the sport.

OK Freddie, how do you know Vargas was not stepping on Tito's left foot? And so you know, Tito was known for quick flash knockdowns. 99% of those were not serious cob web type situations. I just watched the 4th again myself. The momentum of Tito's punch/body when caught with Vargas shot would have resulted in nothing other than his falling as he did. He was pretty much squared up when the punch landed...You're the biased one here if you don't see Tito practically pushing the ref out of the way to get at Vargas. And that little "freeze" you refer to, happens in all of Tito's fights. He gets bent on landing his money punch and stays locked in that launch mode from time to time. Not an indication of him being hurt as you claim. Tito was coming FORWARD.. NOT clinching either. He came to do what he always does when he gets knocked down. Knock a btch out.

Again, Duran at 147lbs... Nah not against Tito kid.

[tyger]

I don't know about Vargas becoming great, but he was rushed by taking the Trinidad fight. So was David Reid.

[Steak]

Trinidad was obviously hurt. you cannot argue that. You see his right foot fly out from underneath him. I dont think he was about to get KOed. no. but there is no doubt it hurt him, and that low blow stole the momentum from Vargas. I dont necessarily think Vargas would have won, but the low blow definitely did not help his case.

I simply laugh at you for thinking that Trinidad would have stopped Roberto Duran.

this is the type of right hand Duran would brutalize Trinidad with all night.

[Plaster...Sad.]

Trinidad was obviously hurt. you cannot argue that. You see his right foot fly out from underneath him. I dont think he was about to get KOed. no. but there is no doubt it hurt him, and that low blow stole the momentum from Vargas. I dont necessarily think Vargas would have won, but the low blow definitely did not help his case.

I simply laugh at you for thinking that Trinidad would have stopped Roberto Duran.

this is the type of right hand Duran would brutalize Trinidad with all night.

Keep in mind, all his weight was on his left foot as he was way committed to his left hook when he got caught with that shot from Vargas. I don't see the big hurt you claim to see. I see a fighter who got caught in the middle of throwin a serious bomb and fell back onto his ass as he often did. He did not fall forward and drool on his shoes... he did not shake around on the ground and appear dazed etc. He sprang up, and was ready to go as he always did when these knock downs occurred.

You can giggle all you want, but I see Tito stopping Duran. I don't care what Hagler did or could not do. I don't care what Davey Moore failed to do. I see Tito putting his lights out or at least yoking him up like he yoked up Campas on the ropes. TKO or KO. Sometimes we get too caught up in thinking, "Well if so and so couldn't KO Duran, than Tito can't."

Don't get me wrong, Duran was a beast and I respect and love what he has done for the sport. Duran can definitely pull off a win, he sparked out Barkley way past his prime at a much higher weight... He sparked out Moore when everyone thought he couldn't...But I still think Tito takes him out.

[Plaster...Sad.]

You do notice that Stevens is taller than Duran right? I don't see how you think Stevens and Duran are the same fighter with the same reach style etc.


Where is the intentional low blow in this fight? Stevens had him hurt right?

Where was the intentional low blow in the Hopkins fight??

Show me a pattern with Tito Trinidad hitting low when hurt?

This fight confirms what I have always said about Tito... He recovers quickly. In Fact, tito is most dangerous when he is checked.

[T.Horton]

He was so young and such a talented fighter for his age. Do you think if he didnt fight tito so early that he could have been a different fighter...a great fighter? Tito was p4p the best when the 22 year old Vargas gave him the hardest fight of titos career. I think he would have been a first ballot hall of famer with the talent he had. A different trainer would have done a world of difference imo. thoughts?

I am not sure that Tito was p4p #1 at the time of their fight but Vargas should never have been in there with him that early. It wasn't like a when Roberto Duran beat up Davey Moore but with a few more tough fights and some discipline Vargas could have been something better.

[Spray_resistant]

Nope, he was good and very entertaining but that is as far as it goes.

What would have happened really if they didn't put him in so early?

He would have fought some softies for a while and then lost when he stepped up anyway just like he did without the build up.

[Steak]

You do notice that Stevens is taller than Duran right? I don't see how you think Stevens and Duran are the same fighter with the same reach style etc.


Where is the intentional low blow in this fight? Stevens had him hurt right?

Where was the intentional low blow in the Hopkins fight??

Show me a pattern with Tito Trinidad hitting low when hurt?

This fight confirms what I have always said about Tito... He recovers quickly. In Fact, tito is most dangerous when he is checked.

Stephans is a journeyman at best, and listed at 5'8(although to be fair he definitely looks taller). The fact you think a simple thing like a slight height advantage would not allow Duran from landing his right hand is ludicrous. lets just ignore the fact that Duran is an ATG and Stephans a journeyman I guess.

and as usual, you have a hissy fit about something I never said.

Im not suggesting that it was intentional..it happens occasionally....but it happened in a situation that HEAVILY favoured Vargas.

youre delusional, and I can tell its impossible to change your one track mind. Im not even discussing boxing anymore, so whats the point? You dont even watch the fights, you have a Puerto Rican flag draped over your eyes at all times.

Trinidad was dropped by right hands over a low left. Duran was excellent at this.
Trinidad was dropped by short shots on the inside. Duran was excellent at this.
Duran had an amazing chin and great defense.
Duran was excellent at body punching.
Duran beat the better fighters at 147lbs.

nothing points to a Trinidad victory, let alone one where he wins within 5 rounds...

[JM1]

definately fed to the lions too early in his career imo...

cosign and this i truly believe. pitting him against tito early in his career was a very bad move imo

[Plaster...Sad.]

Stephans is a journeyman at best, and listed at 5'8(although to be fair he definitely looks taller). The fact you think a simple thing like a slight height advantage would not allow Duran from landing his right hand is ludicrous. lets just ignore the fact that Duran is an ATG and Stephans a journeyman I guess.

and as usual, you have a hissy fit about something I never said.


youre delusional, and I can tell its impossible to change your one track mind. Im not even discussing boxing anymore, so whats the point? You dont even watch the fights, you have a Puerto Rican flag draped over your eyes at all times.

Trinidad was dropped by right hands over a low left. Duran was excellent at this.
Trinidad was dropped by short shots on the inside. Duran was excellent at this.
Duran had an amazing chin and great defense.
Duran was excellent at body punching.
Duran beat the better fighters at 147lbs.

nothing points to a Trinidad victory, let alone one where he wins within 5 rounds...

And somehow... Duran beating Leonard is an indication of Duran beating Trinidad?

Somehow Tito getting caught in one fight against Stephens, and coming back to KO him points to a Duran Victory over Tito??

Duran being excellent at body punching means nothing as Tito has never been known to suffer from body shots. Not only that, I can only imagine the left hooks Tito will be countering to Duran's jaw when Duran goes to the body.

Duran being the tough guy that he is, would try and go toe to toe with Tito which at 147, he can do with Leonard but with Tito, I think is a BIG mistake.

It's my opinion, kinda like you think Tony Thompson is the greatest of all time... I call it like I see it. Nothing to do with flags or bias, I just think Tito is a bad match-up for Duran no matter how you tried to paint it in your 3 posts.

Yes Duran beat "the better fighters" at 147, I just don't think he gets past Tito.