What Role Has Judging Played in the Death of Inside Fighting?

[New England]

its a lot harder to score a fight from ringside when the guys are on the ropes and fighting inside. if you've got a fighter with his back to you, and he's big enough, he can block your entire view of the exchanges.


still, i don't think this will make guys shy away from fighting on the inside because they don't think they can win rounds.

amateur scoring also contributes greatly to the lack of inside fighting. guys don't even bother throwing to the body, because the blows are rarely scored. they'd prefer eye catching punches from the outside. they also want to give the judges a chance to score the blows. that's whyt you see some of those "showy" mannerisms after blows are landed. guys will walk away from an opponent after a landed punch instead of following up.


amaterur scoring is in the process of changing. maybe that will help.



finally, i'll add this. boxing gloves are changing. they're mostly solid foam and hard leather. punchers gloves used to be horsehair and soft leather, which allows you to articulate the hand more. part of inside fighting is holding, and the smaller gloves allowed for that.


you don't want fights to go back to the very early black and white period. those guys used to do nothing but wrestle in a lot of instances. i'd have to review the tape, but it was around the time of robinson, louis, truely offensively potent punchers, where guys started to really value being arm's length away and getting full leverage.

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

I'm not really talking about a boxer vs. a pressure fighter type of comparison. Even the best "pressure fighters"/"volume punchers", etc. in boxing today lack inside skills.

Either way, it starts in the gym not the judging IMO.

[SilverMiles]

Either way, it starts in the gym not the judging IMO.

I'm not sure I agree with this. You're going to be trained in whatever style seems effective. When the amateur scoring system change the way fighter trained changed. A coach isn't going to put emphasis on inside fighting when they know that's not what the judges are looking for.

[-PBP-]

I'm not sure I agree with this. You're going to be trained in whatever style seems effective. When the amateur scoring system change the way fighter trained changed. A coach isn't going to put emphasis on inside fighting when they know that's not what the judges are looking for.

Beat me to it. Amatuer fighters are trained to win based on the scoring system in place. If the system favors clean, visible punches, trainers will emphasize that in their teachings.

[SplitSecond]

I agree that some refs are too quick to break up the clinch. But at the same time, fighting out of the clinch is an inside skill that a lot of fighters lack nowadays. Watch a Roberto Duran fight to see how a fighter can free himself from a clinch, create space and maintain his workrate.

Duran fought in a time where the refs let you fight inside, Even Duran could be neutralized if both arms were clinched or in these days that even if you keep an arm free(like Maidana vs Mayweather) the ref will instantly call a stop to the action.

It's not the fighters so much, when Chavez was tying up both of Rios's arms Rios did the right thing by using his head(putting it on the center of Chavez's clavicle and push off to free his arms), Rios was warned and fans on here were calling him dirty. He's not supposed to accept the clinch, but he can't do anything to get out of it.

[SplitSecond]

Ref's killing the inside fighting have taken a huge part of pressure fighting away. When the pressured fighter wants a break he initiates a clinch and gains his distance back. Real bullsht.

[-PBP-]

Duran fought in a time where the refs let you fight inside, Even Duran could be neutralized if both arms were clinched or in these days that even if you keep an arm free(like Maidana vs Mayweather) the ref will instantly call a stop to the action.

It's not the fighters so much, when Chavez was tying up both of Rios's arms Rios did the right thing by using his head(putting it on the center of Chavez's clavicle and push off to free his arms), Rios was warned and fans on here were calling him dirty. He's not supposed to accept the clinch, but he can't do anything to get out of it.

Ref's killing the inside fighting have taken a huge part of pressure fighting away. When the pressured fighter wants a break he initiates a clinch and gains his distance back. Real bullsht.

That's a part of it, I have to admit that. But look at Ali/Frazier 2. He clinched to prevent Frazier from working inside and maintain distance. Look at the amount of clinching in Tyson/Holyfield. Clinching to maintain your distance is something that has been taught for years.

You didn't see this huge shift until recent when the amateurs installed the compubox style scoring and this skill was being overlooked because it wasn't an effective way to win a gold medal. Look at the number of controversial fights James Toney has been involved him. He did some brilliant inside work in the Montell Griffin series and got no credit for it.

I think since it's so hard to score inside work fighters have been making more of an effort to stay at distance.

[Tom Cruise]

I agree with lots that has been said. Refereeing, Amateur boxing and glove size/composition especially all contribute.

Also Id add the move to 12 rounds instead of 15 had an effect over time.

Inside fighting is not that great for winning rounds or scoring points (not saying it cant be done, just not the best style), but what it is good at is beating/grinding up your opponent and getting stoppages. Staying away from a Marciano/Duran/Frazier/Armstrong type might be do-able over 12, but from rnds 12-15 you will be pushed to the limit. The chances of being stopped or losing a lot of rounds go up.

The same could be said for a pure power puncher style like Joe Louis. When you have 15 rounds to get a stoppage rather than 12, winning rounds becomes slightly less important.

[bojangles1987]

I think the refs have something to do with it but I think the real blame is the amateur system. The whole "points" approach has pretty much changed the way boxers fight drastically. Another thing is people don't even really understand inside fighting. You look at your average fan, even a lot of the people that post on this very site and when fighters are fighting on the inside, a good majority of them have no idea what the hell is going on. You gotta figure the judges see it the same way as well. All in all, I think there are a bunch of factors that play a role and truth be told, inside fightin is a dying art I doubt ever really makes a comeback.

I think it's a combination of the refs and the amateur system above anything else. Why fight inside when you can clinch excessively? Why fight inside when no one teaches you and the amateurs discourages it?

[-PBP-]

I agree with lots that has been said. Refereeing, Amateur boxing and glove size/composition especially all contribute.

Also Id add the move to 12 rounds instead of 15 had an effect over time.

Inside fighting is not that great for winning rounds or scoring points (not saying it cant be done, just not the best style), but what it is good at is beating/grinding up your opponent and getting stoppages. Staying away from a Marciano/Duran/Frazier/Armstrong type might be do-able over 12, but from rnds 12-15 you will be pushed to the limit. The chances of being stopped or losing a lot of rounds go up.

The same could be said for a pure power puncher style like Joe Louis. When you have 15 rounds to get a stoppage rather than 12, winning rounds becomes slightly less important.

Even the boxers lack inside skills nowadays. Boxers like Toney, Whitaker, Mayweather, Hopkins, Leonard, etc. were all well rounded fighters that could be extremely productive inside the pocket.

Nowadays you look at everybody from Lara, Rigondeaux, Khan, Brook, etc. they are either extremely reliant on their feet or they revert to clinching when their opponent closes distance.