Originally posted by squealpiggy
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Ancient sophisticated civilization sight found believed to be the oldest in the world
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Originally posted by MANIAC310 View Postis it older than the Sumerian sites? I thought those were 13,000 years old.
and when you say the sight might predate the "flood" are you referring to the Noah biblical flood where he puts Billions of animal species into an arch?
i dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.
for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.
many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.
almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)
there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.
my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"
specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.
the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.
you seem like a smart lad
i wouldnt think you'd be willing to discount some of the most important texts ever produced as completely meaningless.
the more time goes by the more i believe that the history young people learn in school (espcially specifically american history and ancient // religious history) is intentionally creating ethnocentrism (the idea that one's group [racial, geographical, etc, is better than the others])Last edited by New England; 10-19-2011, 07:36 AM.
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Originally posted by New England View Posti dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.
for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.
many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.
almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)
there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.
my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"
specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.
the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.
you seem like a smart lad
i wouldnt think you'd be willing to discount some of the most important texts ever produced as completely meaningless.
the more time goes by the more i believe that the history young people learn in school (espcially specifically american history and ancient // religious history) is intentionally creating ethnocentrism (the idea that one's group [racial, geographical, etc, is better than the others])
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Originally posted by New England View Posti dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.
for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.
many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.
almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)
there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.
my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"
specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.
the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.
you seem like a smart lad
i wouldnt think you'd be willing to discount some of the most important texts ever produced as completely meaningless.
the more time goes by the more i believe that the history young people learn in school (espcially specifically american history and ancient // religious history) is intentionally creating ethnocentrism (the idea that one's group [racial, geographical, etc, is better than the others])
Comment
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Originally posted by New England View Posti dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.
for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.
many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.
almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)
there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.
A worldwide flood would have left actual evidence.
my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"
specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.
the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.
Originally posted by spyvsspyDid the white man ever consider preserving the ''treasures" that they stole...considering that their most valuable information was probably in their art...also many writings that were left behind will never truly be understood considering the white man never gave a fook about understanding these unique and foreign people
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Originally posted by kbpoetree View PostLMAO the ******ness here never fails me....there is fact and evidence of a flood...wether u believe it was from God to destroy the world and Noah built an arc is up to u...but there was a flood no doubt...wow
Youtube videos don't count.
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Originally posted by squealpiggy View PostHuman beings require water to survive. Lots of humans require lots of water. Therefore settlements built exclusively near large bodies of water. Large bodies of water flood, usually seasonally. Large floods are a common and deadly uncontrollable event. Therefore floods made their way into mythology.
A worldwide flood would have left actual evidence.
The last glacial maximum was 20,000 years ago, pre-civilisation and pre-writing. I don't think that oral traditions were robust enough to last 10,000 years before these things could finally be written down. It's far more likely that flood mythology is based on the fact that local floods were a common feature of paleo and neolithic life ~ 10,000 years ago.
Again I don't think that many of these flood traditions even go back that far.
Natives didn't have writing in North America. Meso-America was different.
you make some decent points but i'm not sure you're getting all of the picture
the holocene era (the current interglacial period) is about 11k years old
there were glaciers covering much of north america and far outside of the arctic circle elsewhere as recently as that
some sources classifiy our era as "not an ice age" // interglacial only as far back as 8-9 thousand years ago.
human writing is about six-eight thousand years old, depending on who you talk to
but culture is far, far older.
no reason whatsoever that stories wouldnt last from the flooding that came from the end of the ice age.
worldwide isnt really a context that would be understood by ancient peoples
if their region flooded, they would probably equate that with a worldwide flood
and glacial flooding and sea level rise has left evidence all over the planet.
it wasnt likely a steady event, either. rivers and lakes were probably formed in days or weeks when glaciers and land began to melt and break away and release huge quan****** of water
and you have your flood. there's evidence of this stuff throughout much of the Mediterranean and elsewhere. it happened, and humans were certainly around to witness it and at a stage where they would be talking about it and trying to make sense about it and pass it on. it might not look like the fictional account in the bible, but there was a significant effect on the planet that ancient peoples would have felt when the last ice age ended.
like i said, its been a long time since i read about it, but the earliest flood myth i can think of i believe is mesopotamian. they were one of the first people to write things down. The Epic of Gilgamesh is the name of the only piece of their stuff i have read.
**** is mad ****ing oldLast edited by New England; 10-19-2011, 10:13 AM.
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