Ali's mean side

[rightsideup]

Ali carried and punished Ernie Terrel. Did he do the same with Paterson.

[GeneralZod]

yes. same reason.

[Dynamite76]

Ali carried and punished Ernie Terrel. Did he do the same with Paterson.

I thought you was talking about his behavior outside the ring, the way he treated Frazier and his wives.

[rightsideup]

I thought you was talking about his behavior outside the ring, the way he treated Frazier and his wives.

I guess I am talking about Ali carrying Ernie and Floyd to punish them for not recognizing his Muslim name. His taunting of Joe and his treatment (cheating) on his wives were character faults of his out of the ring behavior. Joe was deeply hurt by Ali's comments and gave him hell in the ring.

[GeneralZod]

Ali may have just been hyping his fight with Frazier, but what he did was pretty shtty. The guy gave him a few grand and helped get his career back on it's feet and he turned right around and treated him like garbage.

[Scott9945]

Ali tortured Patterson. He felt bad about it years later and gave him a rematch in which he carried Floyd for a few rounds and allowed him to get in some offense and retire with dignity.

[beez721]

Ali may have just been hyping his fight with Frazier, but what he did was pretty shtty. The guy gave him a few grand and helped get his career back on it's feet and he turned right around and treated him like garbage.

yes,,,Ill never forget all the people that despised ali back then but he seemed to turn many people around after that sad holmes fight

[Ray Corso]

Pro boxers throughout their 20's make big mistakes. In many cases their social misfits or deliquents and simply caught up in earning millions and knowing their being stretched to thin or actually getting ripped off or simply are overwhelmed!!!
Its not an excuse its a reality that fame brings but theres dynamics in a fighters life that adds to the confussion.

The "uncle tom"
comments I know Ali was very remoursfull of because Joe was the furtherest from an Tom!

Another time I'll speak of the violence that can rise between pro fighter and women in their lives. Theres a certain dynamic that can occur when women who are drawn to men involved in a violent business erupts. Why does it and how does it effect him as a pro! Not now though!

Ali became a great man and has done so much for all men and woman. just dig deeper into mthe real life and times and you'll be amazed.
The special that aired these past few days had some beautifull live interviews that showed Ali's honesty and heart when he was very vulnerable.

Remember that Ali's face at one time was the "most recognized" face in the World!!! The only other Heavyweight Champ that had that kind of noteriety was Dempsey. Ofcourse the world during Jacks time was a much "smaller" place. Dempsey was more famous in the States than Babe Ruth and Ruth was also known in many countries! Ray

[billeau2]

Ali was frucked with to no end by a media that was a natural genome to the bought and paid for Murdoch machine we have today....at the height of the abuse, virtually the only media celeb who had the balls to stick by Ali in leu of his decisions to protest the war and change his faith, was Howard Cosell.. Yes Howwy could be obnoxious but the man was a true blue jew hah! seriously Cosell stuck by Ali and while Ali took shizzle from every tom dick and harry trying to score brown nose points.....guess what? sometimes the guy he fought would also disrespect Ali.

Ali is so smart that he used a sense of humor and transparency when dealing with the slavish media....But in the ring? He could let his fists do the talking. Guys like Patterson and perhaps Terrell...were in the wrong place at the wrong time...Because Ali was constantly being assailed. An unpopular choice that one does for moral reasons that goes against the mainstream and you become everyones scapegoat for....the war, self identity as it relates to Black Muslims in contrast to a large contingency of Christians.

Ali also had other issues with Frazier. Ali was the light skinned, eloquent, technician with the suave style....Frazier was the darker skinned, workmanlike machine. Ali made some comments that highlighted this caste system in the African American community....I mean lets not let that elephant in the middle of the living room **** anymore and ignore it. But when boxers become boy scouts in the ring....and when people are on your ass, some one will catch the flack. In Ali's case we know who some of those people were....

Ali was in fact a gentle man. I heard this story years ago from a fellow martial arts guy: Ali was in Louisville and was giving a demo. One guest was a martial arts black belt in karate (Ali was in fact a fan of the martial arts!) the fellow wanted to spar Ali. So this is how the guy tells the story: "Well Ali starts acting all wide eyed humering me with comments like 'master g is gonna teach me a lesson!' Eventually we start sparring and I go at ali like I want to teach him a lesson for laughing at me...Ali acts all timid and hurt as he defly dodges everything....We go on like this and suddelnly a tap from a jab and I feel my legs but as I fall Ali is in close acting like we are fighting and I am returning fire....holding me up! eventually he backs away again feigning great timidity, smiles...he turns to the crowd and talks up my display of skill."

This guy goes on to say Ali only threw a light jab and that ali could have killed him haha.

[Sugarj]

Ali tortured Patterson. He felt bad about it years later and gave him a rematch in which he carried Floyd for a few rounds and allowed him to get in some offense and retire with dignity.

I disagree. Patterson fought very well that night in 1972. Ali didn't carry him at all. His performances against Quarry, Ellis and Bonavena indicate that even into his twilight he was still very much world class and more than capable of taking 70s Ali a good few rounds without being carried.