Car bailout collapses in Senate due to union

[Check]

The big 3 hurt themselves in the 80's. Everyone west of the Mississippi thinks their cars are crap but honestly they are as efficient as that german car you are purchasing. Unions are the reason why the car companies are in trouble. Unions of the 70s were set up because the auto industry(GM the number 1 industry in the world at the time) were abusing their employees. Fast foward to present day, its the other way around. The Unions abused the companies and sucked them dry. I don't know if you guys realize that GM produced the same amount of cars as Toyota. Both sold the same amount but GM reported a 38 billion dollar loss while Toyota posted a 17 billion dollar profit. Now I know how most outsiders see the big bad 3 and Detroit and feel that this was coming to them but honestly it all boiled down to the UAW. Along with the unions not being able to adapt and take any paycuts the big 3 made big mistakes with stuff like job banks. Bad bad decisions have hurt these companies but in no way are these bad cars and people need to realize that and come back to American Automobile. People in Detroit have seen it for years but if the 3 were to fold the rest of the country will finally feel the impact that Detroit has felt for years.

[Spare Moody]

Yeah, power wise America has the muscle but that's not what people are looking for right now. What can you tell me about your beamer, Tony? Is it really as unreliable and expensive as Ferocity makes it out to be? I know your **** guzzles gas like a ***** too though.. you said you had twin turbo on it right?

yeah it does and, actually, this model hasn't been the best compared to my other ones. but, generally speaking, BMWs are extremely reliable. here's the other thing: warranty

anytime **** remotely hits the fan then it's covered at zero cost. plus, they always give me 5 and X series for loaners and that rules!

someone may say "well that's great but what about when the warranty runs out? how will it perform after 200K miles?"

to which my answer is: who cares! most luxury car owners buy a new one after their last one gets about 5 years old. people don't buy German cars hoping to crack 200K miles and people don't buy American cars when they think fuel efficiency.

[Check]

we bought a ford truck.. it was ****. we said **** it.. traded it in for a Toyota, haven't had any problems. Quality wise Japanese cars are better. European cars are more expensive but you don't have to maintain them as often as the American ones.. better parts cost more money.
And even if your brother's tahoe is running in good condition.. it's still killing him at the tank.. so don't you feel stupid? American cars right now can't compare to Japanese cars when it comes to fuel efficiency.. why else do you think the American cars are sitting on the lots while Japanese cars are selling? That's fact.. not a little bull**** opinion like yours.
There where dealerships giving cars for the price of one here in Vegas for ****s sake.. They said buy an Escalade and get a sedan for the same payment.

Right now Japan is beating us in that market because they are efficient, reliable, and look nice as well. You can't blame the unions for the cars not selling.. you can blame the idiots who made our cars big, bulky and less fuel efficient.

Have you ever had to fixed foreign car? The cost to fix a car from Japan or Germany is far greater than an American car. Not to mention a lot of foreign cars have a higher breakdown rate than American cars. Maybe your experience was bad but you are now a minority. Try getting a Jaguar fixed and look at the bill. You need to do some research.

[ferocity]

we bought a ford truck.. it was ****. we said **** it.. traded it in for a Toyota, haven't had any problems. Quality wise Japanese cars are better. European cars are more expensive but you don't have to maintain them as often as the American ones.. better parts cost more money.
And even if your brother's tahoe is running in good condition.. it's still killing him at the tank.. so don't you feel stupid? American cars right now can't compare to Japanese cars when it comes to fuel efficiency.. why else do you think the American cars are sitting on the lots while Japanese cars are selling? That's fact.. not a little bull**** opinion like yours.
There where dealerships giving cars for the price of one here in Vegas for ****s sake.. They said buy an Escalade and get a sedan for the same payment.

Right now Japan is beating us in that market because they are efficient, reliable, and look nice as well. You can't blame the unions for the cars not selling.. you can blame the idiots who made our cars big, bulky and less fuel efficient.

Toyota has had recalls and people act like its nothing. But if its an American car then its a ****ty car company.

Thing is theres no changing your mind. You're stuck in the past and unless your mom got a car your truck is wasting just as much gas as an American truck. Thats a fact.

My brothers drove Toyotas, Honda, etc. and there opinion on these Toyotas was they have weak power. Were as a Tahoe get get out out of a line in case your forced too. Keep you slow bug Toyota, 1 out of millions of Fords on the rode and they can't compete with Toyota, thats a ****en joke.

[Check]

Are me and Ferocity the only two that know anything about what we are talking about? BTW, I work for a major first tier supplier of General Motors.(not that it really matters but I do see a lot of whats going on)

[ferocity]

Yeah, power wise America has the muscle but that's not what people are looking for right now. What can you tell me about your beamer, Tony? Is it really as unreliable and expensive as Ferocity makes it out to be? I know your **** guzzles gas like a ***** too though.. you said you had twin turbo on it right?

You see that bottom quote kid.

From my understanding, they're more expensive to maintain.


My 2001 Ford F150 has never given me problems. knock on wood. 100,000 miles


I had to change the tranny on my 2001 Honda Civic at 86,000 miles.

sin city is one ignorant mf stuck in the past.

[Sweet Pea 50]

All this has to go down when GM releases these two monsters....





The CTS-V was the first sedan to crack the 8 minute barrier at the Nurbrugring. Quality, interior, have been deemed all first rate by almost every car publication that has tested it. ****, even the Top Gear guys where impressed by it.

The Corvette ZR1 is a simply astonishing. And if you are one of those fruitcakes that whines about interiors, you shouldn't be behind the wheel of a 630 hp super car in the first place.

When GM puts there minds to it, they can make some brilliant cars. And this is coming from a Ford guy.

[!! Shawn]

All this has to go down when GM releases these two monsters....





The CTS-V was the first sedan to crack the 8 minute barrier at the Nurbrugring. Quality, interior, have been deemed all first rate by almost every car publication that has tested it. ****, even the Top Gear guys where impressed by it.

The Corvette ZR1 is a simply astonishing. And if you are one of those fruitcakes that whines about interiors, you shouldn't be behind the wheel of a 630 hp super car in the first place.

When GM puts there minds to it, they can make some brilliant cars. And this is coming from a Ford guy.

The Corvette has and always will be the only American car worth its salt.

With that said, reliability is still an issue with American cars, not only that, the build quality is horrendous. The workmanship is not on par with foreign cars, and the engines are for the most part based on obsolete technology.

I have a BMW 330ci. I have NEVER had a problem, NEVER. The interior workmanship is second too none. The exterior workmanship is second too none. The engine is perfect. The power delivery is exquisite. The handling, well it drives like a BMW. Its quick, its fun, and to top it off I get 32mpg on the highway. I can get 38mpg if I milk it.

My mom has always had BMW's and for some reason she decided to get a GM. She is not happy with it. Its been in the shop like 4 times for problems and fluid leaks. The interior workmanship is awful. The seats are uncomfortable, the trim pieces have molding seams, stuff you would never find on a foreign car.

My dads new Chevy truck is better, but it still has problem, and workmanship issues. The trim pieces are so obviously plastic, smell like plastic, the seats are not comfortable.

Simply put, the quality is not there. They are getting better as a big picture, but the attention to detail is no there. The engineering is not there, they are not competitive.

[Sweet Pea 50]

The Corvette has and always will be the only American car worth its salt.

With that said, reliability is still an issue with American cars, not only that, the build quality is horrendous. The workmanship is not on par with foreign cars, and the engines are for the most part based on obsolete technology.

I have a BMW 330ci. I have NEVER had a problem, NEVER. The interior workmanship is second too none. The exterior workmanship is second too none. The engine is perfect. The power delivery is exquisite. The handling, well it drives like a BMW. Its quick, its fun, and to top it off I get 32mpg on the highway. I can get 38mpg if I milk it.

My mom has always had BMW's and for some reason she decided to get a GM. She is not happy with it. Its been in the shop like 4 times for problems and fluid leaks. The interior workmanship is awful. The seats are uncomfortable, the trim pieces have molding seams, stuff you would never find on a foreign car.

My dads new Chevy truck is better, but it still has problem, and workmanship issues. The trim pieces are so obviously plastic, smell like plastic, the seats are not comfortable.

Simply put, the quality is not there. They are getting better as a big picture, but the attention to detail is no there. The engineering is not there, they are not competitive.

Your post should be a article on Car and Driver. Them clowns leg hump BMW as much as you do.
They pitted a BMW M3 against a Nissan GTR, and a 911 Turbo, in a "performance" test. Well, while the author of said article was fapping over "Oh the connectedness to the road, oh the oneness between man and machine, oh the leather wrapped, triple stitched, latte holder...", it was getting spanked harder then Gatti against Mayweather.
BMW builds a nice car. They are not the end all, be all. Far from it.

[ferocity]

The Corvette has and always will be the only American car worth its salt.

With that said, reliability is still an issue with American cars, not only that, the build quality is horrendous. The workmanship is not on par with foreign cars, and the engines are for the most part based on obsolete technology.

I have a BMW 330ci. I have NEVER had a problem, NEVER. The interior workmanship is second too none. The exterior workmanship is second too none. The engine is perfect. The power delivery is exquisite. The handling, well it drives like a BMW. Its quick, its fun, and to top it off I get 32mpg on the highway. I can get 38mpg if I milk it.

My mom has always had BMW's and for some reason she decided to get a GM. She is not happy with it. Its been in the shop like 4 times for problems and fluid leaks. The interior workmanship is awful. The seats are uncomfortable, the trim pieces have molding seams, stuff you would never find on a foreign car.

My dads new Chevy truck is better, but it still has problem, and workmanship issues. The trim pieces are so obviously plastic, smell like plastic, the seats are not comfortable.

Simply put, the quality is not there. They are getting better as a big picture, but the attention to detail is no there. The engineering is not there, they are not competitive.

You're comparing a Bmw to a truck and who knows what car. Try comparing a Bmw to a cadillac.

I got a 98 Z/28 camaro and i've beat the dog **** out of this car like no ones busniess and the engine so far has been great. I have no complains for mileage either not with a car that moves this fast. Average around town regular driving is about 17 mpg and highway is about 28.

If you think gm's engines are obsolete you are out your mind, gm's engines espically the lsX engine lines are top of the line.

Bmw's are nice cars but they are not cheap and if something is wrong with them good luck.

The Ponitac GTO, stopped production not because it didn't sell good in the usa but because it didnt' do good number over seas.

The Buick line doesn't sell that good here but over seas it sells great.