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Did Roach make Pacquiao what he is today?

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  • Did Roach make Pacquiao what he is today?

    Vitali Shaposhnikov - I have met Freddie Roach a few times so far, and every time he manages to impress me more and more. Of course years back many people on the street would not recognize this man, unless somehow interested in boxing. Sure Freddie was always a decent trainer, but his stock soared after picking up Manny Pacquiao. Roach did work with some amazing fighters previously, such as Mike Tyson, Virgil Hill, Israel Vasquez, Michael Moorer, Wlad Klitschko, James Toney, and Oscar De La Hoya. All of the above mentioned are world known names, which shocked the boxing scene numerous times, but not a single one of them did for Freddie what Manny was able to do, and vice versa..

    Since with Manny, their relationship and success has been unquestioned. Imagining Roach and Pacquiao not working together seems virtually impossible, almost surreal. Together, they seem unstoppable. What seems to be the most interesting aspect in their professional relationship is how they boost each other’s image and opinion in the public eye.

    When talking about and discussing Pacquiao’s future opponents, I hear a lot of people “blaming/predicting” a win for Manny because he has the ultimate weapon in boxing: coach Roach. With Freddie, a lot of people feel safe and assured that Manny is going to come in, dominate, and go celebrate his victory in Philippines. Sometimes it feels like people don’t think Pacquiao would be as great without his buddy Roach. Things become even more exciting, when Freddie, with a confident yet relaxed face expression, predicts a knockout for Manny. Not only does Freddie like to predict, but he loves to be very specific, identifying the round of the knockout. This drives Pacman fans wild, and heats up the crowd for the event. This time against Margarito, Freddie took his words a bit further, stating that he will be very disappointed in Manny if the fight doesn’t end with him knocking out Antonio.

    Roach seems to be getting a return in his investment into Pacquiao as well. When folks talk about Freddie as a coach, they always mention Manny as his golden trophy (which makes sense). When new fighters emerge and see some success to their boxing, they immediately attempt to get Roach’s attention. Why not? Roach is a great trainer, and could possibly do for them what he did for Pacquiao. Even looking at Amir Khan, Freddie seems to be doing an awesome job. There are a ton of good trainers out there, but they don’t have Pacquiao, do they? Freddie always told me that the only reason he is getting all this attention and popularity is due to the great outcomes with his stable of fighters. But he also says that the only reason for their mutual success is themselves. He said to me that every fighter he has ever had who went far, did so because they are talented and determined. He works on the little things and strategy, but has no doubt that they would go far without him if need be.

    This is just something I started noticing when talking to random people about the amazing duo. Most believe that one without the other would not work at all. A big part of the general boxing public sees the birth of Pacquiao when he was turned over to Freddie for “raising.” Personally I don’t want to believe so, as I think that every fighter’s success is due to the earliest part of their training, and the rest is detail polishing. Manny is a tremendous athlete, and is focused as well as determined for every fight no matter what circumstances he comes across. November is coming up, and people are excited to see what Freddie and Manny cooked up for the Tornado this time.

  • #2
    I wonder what roach does to become a great trainer? He wasnt a great fighter, so to become a great trainer does he go to learn how to teach boxing school or something, or does he just spend his whole day watching fight and reading learn how to box books?
    Maybe Pac could become as succesful as trainer as roach by teaching people what roach taught him.

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    • #3
      Of course people are going to disagree with me.

      But aside from Roach's obvious training contributions.........Pacquiao started fighting less - stiff challenges as he moved up in weight Minus Marquez.

      Barrera was already pretty much on the down after a career that started at 15 years old, and Morales wasn't exactly the same fighter he was at 127 after he moved up and lost that horrible beating to Rahim.

      It's kind of disappointing in that Pacman never fought Jesus Chavez, but he did fight some great opponents on the road up namely I thought his wins over Ledwaba, Julio, and Lucero were outstanding.

      He moved up after the second Marquez fight to 147 then fought a Past prime DLH who was outmatched, a Shocked Hatton that belonged nowhere near 147lbs, and an already shocked/chinny Cotto that was on the road back from the beating he took from Margarito.

      I'm not discrediting Manny........I'm stating he's had it easy lately.

      But he's still a great fighter no doubt.

      Just not the P4P best..............Floyd easily is.



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      • #4
        Originally posted by hugh grant View Post
        I wonder what roach does to become a great trainer? He wasnt a great fighter, so to become a great trainer does he go to learn how to teach boxing school or something, or does he just spend his whole day watching fight and reading learn how to box books?
        Maybe Pac could become as succesful as trainer as roach by teaching people what roach taught him.


        You dont need to be great fighter to be great trainer,Nazim Richardson didnt put a boxing gloves in his life just like Evangelista Cotto.

        And they are great trainers.


        ROACH was trained by Eddie Futch and Eddie is Enclycopedia of boxing

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        • #5
          "He works on the little things and strategy, but has no doubt that they would go far without him if need be. "

          It is this little quotes that goes unnoticed most of the time when discussing Roach. He always give credit to his fighters.

          What is highlighted is his predictions that borders on unlikely. It could be just for hype or pure mental games but And Roach gets so many prediction that he always makes 1 correct. Lolz.

          Only fighter were I feel he did not good job is Izzy. But all in all, kudos to Roach for a good job in developing his fighters.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RunW/Knives View Post
            Of course people are going to disagree with me.

            But aside from Roach's obvious training contributions.........Pacquiao started fighting less - stiff challenges as he moved up in weight Minus Marquez.

            Barrera was already pretty much on the down after a career that started at 15 years old, and Morales wasn't exactly the same fighter he was at 127 after he moved up and lost that horrible beating to Rahim.

            It's kind of disappointing in that Pacman never fought Jesus Chavez, but he did fight some great opponents on the road up namely I thought his wins over Ledwaba, Julio, and Lucero were outstanding.

            He moved up after the second Marquez fight to 147 then fought a Past prime DLH who was outmatched, a Shocked Hatton that belonged nowhere near 147lbs, and an already shocked/chinny Cotto that was on the road back from the beating he took from Margarito.

            I'm not discrediting Manny........I'm stating he's had it easy lately.

            But he's still a great fighter no doubt.

            Just not the P4P best..............Floyd easily is.
            P4P, Floyd is not easily the best. Skill-wise, he is easily the best. But outside of Mosley which hindsight proved to be similar to Pac-Dlh sans round 2 ... and talking from 2005 to today, could you say that Pac took the easier road than Floyd?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CungLe View Post
              You dont need to be great fighter to be great trainer,Nazim Richardson didnt put a boxing gloves in his life just like Evangelista Cotto.

              And they are great trainers.


              ROACH was trained by Eddie Futch and Eddie is Enclycopedia of boxing
              Yes Eddie futch was a great trainer. He probably taught Roach so much, that i wonder how Roach remembers everything?
              He must study so he dont get rusty and forget certain tecniques to teach or show.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tesla_power View Post
                P4P, Floyd is not easily the best. Skill-wise, he is easily the best. But outside of Mosley which hindsight proved to be similar to Pac-Dlh sans round 2 ... and talking from 2005 to today, could you say that Pac took the easier road than Floyd?
                Well I don't want to dispute how a P4P scale works but I'll just state that lately both haven't exactly had the hardest road.

                Also I didn't want this to turn into another Floyd/Pac argument I was only stating my logic why I think he's turned into the current fighter he is. (Which seems to be much stronger/faster almost superhuman compared to the original Manny). Sure Roach had a lot to do with that obviously:

                But in addition to that it was tailor made match making.



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                • #9
                  Originally posted by RunW/Knives View Post
                  Past prime DLH who was outmatched, a Shocked Hatton that belonged nowhere near 147lbs, and an already shocked/chinny Cotto that was on the road back from the beating he took from Margarito.

                  I'm not discrediting Manny........I'm stating he's had it easy lately.
                  To say he's had it easy lately seems ridiculous, many doubted he could defeat ODL, hardly anyone predicted he'd become a top, let alone dominating welterweight. That's what he's achieved in beating any top welterweight he could.

                  Who else could he have fought instead of DLH and Cotto at that time that would have impressed you more? Both of those fights were considered competitive, in-fact ODL was favoured by many to win.

                  As for your comments on Hatton, that fight was not at 147, it was at 140 which was Hattons career weight and where he was best. This was again considered a competitive match up. In the last few years how many top ranked welterweights has Floyd faced?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RunW/Knives View Post
                    Well I don't want to dispute how a P4P scale works but I'll just state that lately both haven't exactly had the hardest road.

                    Also I didn't want this to turn into another Floyd/Pac argument I was only stating my logic why I think he's turned into the current fighter he is. (Which seems to be much stronger/faster almost superhuman compared to the original Manny). Sure Roach had a lot to do with that obviously:

                    But in addition to that it was tailor made match making.
                    Well, ok. I'm just disputing the "P4P easily Floyd" part because IMO, Pac trumps every Mayweather accomplishment except the win-loss ratio and PPV averages.

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