The Shoulder Roll in 1907

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Good post Cuauh apart from one thing.

Marvin Hagler was a master of his craft.

I hear what you are saying, I was just making a point of killers in the ring. I mean all you have to do is watch the way he broke people down and intimidated them. That fight with Hearns was just about a street fight.

[JAB5239]

What fighters do you think Gans was entitled to fight but didn't?

I don't think "holding back" in fights is relevant unless it actually changed a Win to a Draw or a Loss. I'm not sure if others do this but I don't usually care how the win was achieved, unless (obviously) it was very close and could have went either way or was a robbery.

Id have to reference a few sources to give an accurate answer. I disagree about the holding back though. I think its very relevant as he could have been much more dominant than given credit for. And from what we know he was pretty damn dominant.

[Barn]

I hear what you are saying, I was just making a point of killers in the ring. I mean all you have to do is watch the way he broke people down and intimidated them. That fight with Hearns was just about a street fight.

You probably already know all this but just in case I'll post it anyway.

Yes he did break people down but it was usually by an accumulation of shots fighting out of the boxer-puncher style. He had an ATG Jab (IMO), very good combinations, more than solid defense, very good movement pre-1985 etc etc. Not to mention he could fight out of both stances.

I think he very much was a master of his craft. Here's a video I made, skip to 1:08 for the boxing part, I included the Hearns part at the beginning to highlight the contrast between how he fought there and how he usually does.

[Barn]

Id have to reference a few sources to give an accurate answer. I disagree about the holding back though. I think its very relevant as he could have been much more dominant than given credit for. And from what we know he was pretty damn dominant.

But surely if gets the win anyway it doesn't matter? Just how I feel.

I mean if he beats 5 fighters by clear decision (for example) it means the same to me as beating the same 5 fighters by KO.

[SBleeder]

DO NOT post this thread in NSB.

The consensus there is that Mayweather invented the shoulder roll. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're convinced that he invented boxing.

[Anthony342]

But surely if gets the win anyway it doesn't matter? Just how I feel.

I mean if he beats 5 fighters by clear decision (for example) it means the same to me as beating the same 5 fighters by KO.

To me and to a lot of fans, it means more if a fighter wins by KO or TKO than by decision. It shows he comes to fight, not just to win on points and that he always tries to "finish fights" as they call it these days. But, if that same fighter gets opponents hurt and is unable to get a KO or stoppage, then at least he tried to finish off his opponent and he gets just as much credit from me. A knockout also means there's no doubt, nobody claiming someone didn't win a fight, it's clear cut, more definitive, therefore carries more weight with me and a lot of fans. It's best to go for the stoppage anyway, knowing how badly some of these fights get scored.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

You probably already know all this but just in case I'll post it anyway.

Yes he did break people down but it was usually by an accumulation of shots fighting out of the boxer-puncher style. He had an ATG Jab (IMO), very good combinations, more than solid defense, very good movement pre-1985 etc etc. Not to mention he could fight out of both stances.

I think he very much was a master of his craft. Here's a video I made, skip to 1:08 for the boxing part, I included the Hearns part at the beginning to highlight the contrast between how he fought there and how he usually does.

You ge tno argument from me, I was just pointing out killers in the ring. Guys who would just out will you, beat you up and Hagler was one of those guys. Like I said his fight vs Hearns was a war. Just a pure slug fest and both men just wanted to hurt each other.

I can't tell you how many times I have had kids come into my gym that have incredible natural ability. We work with them for months teaching them the craft and then they spar or have their first fight where they don't just walk through someone, and their true colors come through.

Boxing isn't for everyone and the one with the most skill isn't always the winner. It takes big balls and heart to be a pro. It's a tough way to make a living and the reason they call it the "Hurt Game".