Should boxers who test positive for illegal drugs be allowed into IBHOF?

[GGG Gloveking]

If the rule doesn't apply you can't break it.

It doesn't exist under NSAC rules. Which technically is all that matters when fighting in Nevada. USADA testing was voluntary.

Why do you keep bringing up NSAC rules? Usada is NOT a signator to NSAC. Usada is a signator to WADA. They need to follow the rules of the WADA not the NSAC. Its pure deflection. My biggest problem is the timing of the TUE. Its retroactive. Floyd did not receive permission prior to break the rules. It was only afterwards, after he had been caught with a needle in his arm full of some unnamed solution, that he was excused for his violation of the rules. If this guy is such a big champion of clean boxing, why didn't he obtain the necessary permission and exemption FIRST? Why didnt he go to a medical center and receive the proper care, in compliance with the WADA rules. You can spin it to sound like he did nothing wrong, but when he was found witha needle in his arm like a damn junkie and without a TUE at that time, he was not in compliance with WADA regulations

[Robbie Barrett]

Why do you keep bringing up NSAC rules? Usada is NOT a signator to NSAC. Usada is a signator to WADA. They need to follow the rules of the WADA not the NSAC. Its pure deflection. My biggest problem is the timing of the TUE. Its retroactive. Floyd did not receive permission prior to break the rules. It was only afterwards, after he had been caught with a needle in his arm full of some unnamed solution, that he was excused for his violation of the rules. If this guy is such a big champion of clean boxing, why didn't he obtain the necessary permission and exemption FIRST? Why didnt he go to a medical center and receive the proper care, in compliance with the WADA rules. You can spin it to sound like he did nothing wrong, but when he was found witha needle in his arm like a damn junkie and without a TUE at that time, he was not in compliance with WADA regulations

NSAC are the only rules that need to be followed by fighters fighting in Nevada that's why. USADA had no authority, it was voluntary testing. It's not hard to understand.

Retroactive TUE's are in place exactly for those kind of circumstances. You can't apply for a TUE for something that "might" happen. A bit of common sense and you'd understand.

[Elroy The Great]

They won't make a guy a "better" fighter. Just a stronger fighter, a faster fighter, a fighter with better O2 intake, a quicker healing fighter, a higher stamina fighter.

I find it strange that sports figures in other sports, Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Lyle Alzado, etc have all noticeably benefitted from steroid use, yet somehow you don't think it would translate into more success in boxing.

Have you ever taken any steroids?

and yet not a single fight where the roider won a fight he had no business winning. i put up a list of muscle bound guys. they all had flaws and only brook was carrying an 0. speaking of stronger, faster, better, you should watch that docu. its very telling.

as for those mlb guys and lance, who cares ? i never said p''e''ds didnt help all athletes just boxers during the actual fight. and cant no one show me a fight where anyone was saying ''um, yeah, hes on roids.'' PRIOR to the failed test. everyone knows things after the fact.

btw, mlb knew they were doping. mlb was never as popular as it was during the roid era. the mark vs sammy lovefest was off the charts. if it werent roids, it was greens, it not greens, it was coke. if not coke, it was messing with the bats/balls. dont for a moment think sports didnt know what was going on.

roids do not replace talent.
they do not win fights.
you can lift more weights, hit more hrs and ummm......

[travestyny]

How about answering my points?
- Expert agrees.....

Dude, you have no points. Look how much speculation you have in this paragraph. Experts know...blah blah blah. Have these experts been the one examining him? The last expert you pulled out of your ass, Dr. Caitlin, said, "There might be a valid explanation, but I don’t know what it is.” So shut the **** up already. Unless you have his medical records, you don't know shlt.

1. USADA just tried to meet minimal compliancy in this case.
Delaying by going and bet on a basketball game is following the rules?

Floyd supposedly didn't urinate all day long then drank enough to make him urinate relatively soon after yet no urine? You try doing that!
Urine normally flows at about 50-80ml/hr. Did you read what that expert said? Floyd should have been able to urinate soon after drinking.

You know when he gave the partial sample? Maybe you can share that information with us. And what is this basketball game shlt you've been mouthing off about?

2. Floyd said it but you do not want to listen to your hero Floyd. Dehydrated due to urine, Blood and exercise. Wrong answer Floyd!!!

If you think they mentioned this as the main reason he was dehydrated, then you are one dumb mutha****er.

3. Floyd said for a decade he has been making weight at 147 easily. If you go by his other fights, he even has a decent breakfast.

After drinking at the weigh-in, technically, he would not even have been considered dehydrated anymore!!!

Once again, did he have any condition that made IV rehydration more effective? Maybe you should listen to your expert that admits he may have been dehydrated.

4. Oscar? You still going there? You comparing a guy that had not weighed in that low in well over a decade while Floyd said he has made the WW limit EASILY for a decade. Plus, Oscar could have taken an IV for whatever reason he wanted to just like many NFL players reportedly use an IV prior to a game. Floyd on the other hand wanted "extra testing" for Manny and others then uses a banned method then 3 weeks after the fact gets USADA to rubber stamp it .

BTW - True or not, Oscar and his team said before and after that Oscar was in great condition. S & C coaches said it had more to do with Oscar's preparation and lack of decent sparring partners. Nothing to do with what we are discussing but if you have a link that says otherwise, I'd be curious enough to read it.

Oscar was 150 for his fight prior to the Pac fight. The point is you've been talking a lot about stable weight and rehydration. His weight was stable for a month. His rehydration was 2 lbs.

And Nacho said that the problem was that he was brought down in weight too fast, which I believe to be the case. However, I dare you to say that being on weight for a month is unstable. His weight was stable and he didn't rehydrate big.

You wanted a link. Here it is:
Beristain explained that De La Hoya’s plan to drop down to 147 well before the fight in order to become strong at that weight vs. the smaller Pacquiao completely backfired. De La Hoya’s strength coach, Rob Garcia, simply dropped Oscar too low in weight too soon and that ultimately left Oscar listless and flat in the fight.
http://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2056555244

Might it have been...dare I say...chronic dehydration? *Gulp*

5. Having an IV is not what WADA expects in this case and you know that. If Floyd's name was Manny, you would be "waving the flag" and calling it all a big lie. You would be showing me 12 documents about it being impossible to be dehydrated due to giving urine, another 12 for blood and another 12 for exercising!

You have nothing to go on. You have been proven wrong about this as much as Hauser has. Hauser gave some bull**** calculations about decreasing the haematocrit levels. This has been proven wrong, and he also backtracked on the whole "Floyd was caught" scenario. Face it. You guys are bumbling idiots that have no idea what you are talking about. Even I can prove that Hauser's calculations are wrong. Besides all of that...FLOYD DIDN'T TAKE A BLOOD TEST!

6. Again, when you use an IV, you can get a SG that is passible. Then they get the WADA Lab to confirm. If its not, well, since Floyd got a RETRO TUE, it didn't really matter that Floyd's urine was diluted. Its to be expected and thrown under the rug. Its just like Diaz's tests. Only 1 came back positive but the other 2 came back negative. The urine sample was collected and later analyzed by different labs using different dilution techniques. Both with their pros and cons. That is, the tests have their limits. It turned out that Diaz's urine was presumable too diluted to find the drugs in 2 of 3 tests. Who said so? Not the collector but the LABs. Actually at least one of the tests came back would have been acceptable under WADA guidelines. Actually, they stated that they have accepted urine tests in the past with specific gravities lower than what Diaz produced.

What are you trying to say? It is expected that his urine would be too diluted? lol. Oh, the problem is that you think having the TUE would allow him to have a non-passble SG. lol Dude. Stop with the bull****. You completely pulled that out of your ass, and you know it.

7.3.3 The DCO shall provide the Athlete with the opportunity to hydrate. The Athlete should avoid excessive rehydration, having in mind the requirement to provide a Sample with a Suitable Specific Gravity for Analysis.
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uplo...-2015-ISTI.pdf

Stop embarrassing yourself with your speculation. At least do some research before you come with this bull****.

[travestyny]

Floyd's representatives pays off USADA and Floyd got USADA recognized and into the door as far as boxing is concerned. USADA returned the favor.

When Lance Armstrong's representatives paid off the UIC for testing purposes, USADA called that "unethical". The amount reported by Lance is NOTHING compared to what Floyd's reps paid USADA in the long run.


USADA: They threw Manny under the bus when he did not report his medical condition knowing full well that Floyd did NOT let the NSAC know about his medical condition until 3 weeks after the fight. Furthermore, USADA went out of its way to defend Floyd. It helps when you pay them!

Answer these questions:

Who was the lead promoter for this fight?

Who pays for Pac's VADA testing?

Was Lance not destroyed by USADA?

As the other poster said...this is boring. Your other goons already ran away. You aren't too bright, are you?

[travestyny]

Ideally, it would be the case but as per WADA:

TUEC: Therapeutic Use Exemption Committee is the panel established by the relevant Anti-Doping Organization.

So in this case, USADA establishes the TUEC.


Usually that is OK but since Floyd's representatives pay off USADA it's not. Even USADA admits to that when they brought up the point that Lance Armstrong representatives paid off UIC for PEDs testing. and the amount mentioned for Lance was not an ongoing thing (that was discussed). USADA gets from Floyd's reps a substantial amount that is unusually higher than the competition!!!!

You are being idiotic. I wasn't aware that Lance Armstrong has "Armstrong Promotions" behind his cycling. You're simply accusing the leading promotion company of paying for extra testing. Just who was supposed to pay for it? I'll wait....

And you really should do some more research:

Each NADO, IF and MEO has the following TUEC-related responsibilities:

 Set up a network of physicians responsible for evaluating TUE applications. TUECs should include at least three physicians with experience in the care and treatment of Athletes and a sound knowledge of clinical, sports and exercise medicine (ISTUE Article 5.2). One of the member physicians acts as TUEC chair.

10.1.1 Conflict of Interest and Confidentiality
To ensure a level of independence of decisions, TUEC members should have no political responsibility in the ADO that appoints them, and all must sign a conflict of interest and confidentiality declaration (ISTUE Article 5.2(b)). The TUEC Confidentiality Declaration template available on WADA’s Web site is provided in Guidelines Annex 2.

So now we have your web of conspiracy growing from USADA being paid off to the TUEC being paid off. Just how many people should know about this great effort to fool a urine test? lol

But there's more:

The ADO must:

Promptly report all decisions of its TUEC to grant or deny TUEs through ADAMS or any other system approved by WADA. In respect of TUEs granted, the information reported shall include:

b. The TUE application form and a summary of the relevant clinical information establishing that ISTUE Article 4.1 conditions have been satisfied, accessible only by WADA, the Athlete’s NADO and IF, and the MEO organizing an Event in which the Athlete wishes to compete (ISTUE 5.4(b)).

So I guess WADA would have had to be included in this pay off.


So let's see...The list of individuals and organizations that you've stated were in Mayweather's pockets now stand as:

1. The judges
2. The Referee
3. The DCO
4. NSAC
5. USADA
6. WADA
7. The WADA accredited laboratory
8. The TUEC


LMAO. Yo. I can summarize this all by just saying...get a life!

[Raggamuffin]

Floyd's representatives pays off USADA and Floyd got USADA recognized and into the door as far as boxing is concerned. USADA returned the favor.

When Lance Armstrong's representatives paid off the UIC for testing purposes, USADA called that "unethical". The amount reported by Lance is NOTHING compared to what Floyd's reps paid USADA in the long run.


USADA: They threw Manny under the bus when he did not report his medical condition knowing full well that Floyd did NOT let the NSAC know about his medical condition until 3 weeks after the fight. Furthermore, USADA went out of its way to defend Floyd. It helps when you pay them!

You butthurt Pacquiao fans are truly hurt by his loss to Floyd. You'll lie and say anything because you can.

[ADP02]

You butthurt Pacquiao fans are truly hurt by his loss to Floyd. You'll lie and say anything because you can.

You need to do some research bud.

Most would agree with me that Floyd's representatives did pay USADA each time there is a fight and the amounts were always higher than if they would have used a competitor such as VADA.

[ADP02]

Dude, you have no points. Look how much speculation you have in this paragraph. Experts know...blah blah blah. Have these experts been the one examining him? The last expert you pulled out of your ass, Dr. Caitlin, said, "There might be a valid explanation, but I don’t know what it is.” So shut the **** up already. Unless you have his medical records, you don't know shlt.

I laugh every time you deflect back to this ..... not just because you deflect but because you do not say the above to yourself when all you are doing is speculating with nothing to go by when it came to Manny's FULL THICKNESS ROTATOR CUFF TEAR. They had the doctor who operated on Manny confirm .... but you prefer a no-name Floyd pretend doctor and what he wrote on the paper but we both know who the doctor was that Floyd thanked. Dr Alex Ariza!!! What a joke!!!!

You know when he gave the partial sample? Maybe you can share that information with us. And what is this basketball game shlt you've been mouthing off about?

What does that have to do with what I said! Floyd had all day to urinate but instead delayed and pretended that he couldn't even though he should have been able to after he drank the fluids.

Floyd likes to bet on basketball. Right after the weigh-in he sometimes goes over to the casino to bet on a basketball game. He shouldn't have been allowed to delay with that excuse.

If you think they mentioned this as the main reason he was dehydrated, then you are one dumb mutha****er.

Then you must be "one dumb mutha****er" since you have in the past tried to defend Floyd's words!!!


Seriously, that is what Floyd said but now you are admitting that its all BS. If it was Manny that said that, you would burn him to the stake with whatever Manny said. Even when Manny clarifies, its not good enough for you. Yet for Floyd, you need to make up your own speculations even though Floyd told you! Urine, blood and exercise.

What most people think, is that the story is all BS. This is a guy, Floyd, who admits to making weight easily so there was no reason.

From urine to blood to needing the IV and getting a TUE. ALL BS and if it was someone else's name (not Floyd), you would been on my team agreeing and calling the guy out and you know it! You would be calling out those who defended, moronic or dumb for believing!

Once again, did he have any condition that made IV rehydration more effective? Maybe you should listen to your expert that admits he may have been dehydrated.

Floyd was not doing no heavy duty exercise on the day before a fight called "Fight of the century" in which would dehydrate to the point of requiring an IV ..... Only if your "one dumb mutha****er" would you even think that!!!
Like I said, I dehydrate and rehydrate way more than a few pounds each day and for about 5-6 times a week for many months at a time when I'm training. So I know when I see BS. You are just trying to save Floyd's asz but it smells!

Floyd said what he had. He was dehydrated a few pounds. Experts say to just drink 600-700ml and you are FULLY REHYDRATED and that is what we saw Floyd do so Floyd was already FULLY REHYDRATED!!! Or like FLoyd said, drink Pedialyte!

Being dehydrated (due to urine, blood, exercise - all occurring on previous days) a few pounds is nothing. No IV was required. Case closed!!!

Oscar was 150 for his fight prior to the Pac fight. The point is you've been talking a lot about stable weight and rehydration. His weight was stable for a month. His rehydration was 2 lbs.

And Nacho said that the problem was that he was brought down in weight too fast, which I believe to be the case. However, I dare you to say that being on weight for a month is unstable. His weight was stable and he didn't rehydrate big.

You wanted a link. Here it is:
Beristain explained that De La Hoya’s plan to drop down to 147 well before the fight in order to become strong at that weight vs. the smaller Pacquiao completely backfired. De La Hoya’s strength coach, Rob Garcia, simply dropped Oscar too low in weight too soon and that ultimately left Oscar listless and flat in the fight.
http://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2056555244

Might it have been...dare I say...chronic dehydration? *Gulp*

Oscar more than likely lost muscle mass and it weakened him. No hydration would help Oscar at that point. On the other hand, Floyd admits to walking at 147-150 for a decade so there would be no reason to require an IV to regain from that devastation called giving urine, giving blood,...


I have Floyd's own words. He said why he was dehydrated. urine, blood and exercise. Is that what Floyd was doing before the IV? NO, NO and NO!!!

BTW - Oscar's trainers blamed it on the sparring partners that were let go and Nacho confirmed that Valero was let go. According to them, Ortiz and Edwin Valero (southpaws) were giving Oscar lots of problems during sparring. So they let them go which was a wrong decision .....

You have nothing to go on. You have been proven wrong about this as much as Hauser has. Hauser gave some bull**** calculations about decreasing the haematocrit levels. This has been proven wrong, and he also backtracked on the whole "Floyd was caught" scenario. Face it. You guys are bumbling idiots that have no idea what you are talking about. Even I can prove that Hauser's calculations are wrong. Besides all of that...FLOYD DIDN'T TAKE A BLOOD TEST!

Hauser said all that. He was giving examples of how an athlete can easily manipulate levels by masking/manipulating.
"There are two ways to determine the presence of synthetic EPO in an athlete’s system. The first is a urine test that directly determines its presence. The second way to test for synthetic EPO is a hematocrit blood test. This test doesn’t directly measure the presence of EPO....."

Again, these are examples of .....

What are you trying to say? It is expected that his urine would be too diluted? lol. Oh, the problem is that you think having the TUE would allow him to have a non-passble SG. lol Dude. Stop with the bull****. You completely pulled that out of your ass, and you know it.

7.3.3 The DCO shall provide the Athlete with the opportunity to hydrate. The Athlete should avoid excessive rehydration, having in mind the requirement to provide a Sample with a Suitable Specific Gravity for Analysis.
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/uplo...-2015-ISTI.pdf

Stop embarrassing yourself with your speculation. At least do some research before you come with this bull****.

I explained (see my first statement in that post - DCO/LAB)) but will make it clearer. The DCO could have passed the SG test but the LAB may have failed it for either being too dilute or for some other reason such as having illegal substance such as Clenbuterol which should have been found since it is a banned substance that is found in IV bags!

Floyd could have even done a blood transfusion or something else beforehand and concerned that the test would have shown traces of illegal substances(I gave example) but now that test is NULL and VOID thanks to USADA.

Floyd should have had higher than normal levels of Clenbuterol but with the RETRO TUE, USADA didn't report any of that.



.

[Raggamuffin]

You need to do some research bud.

Most would agree with me that Floyd's representatives did pay USADA each time there is a fight and the amounts were always higher than if they would have used a competitor such as VADA.

Most Pacquiao fans right?