Who wants to see Deontay Wilder KTFO by a russian cruiserweight?

[King_]

you are missing the point of the argument. completely missing it.

when did this soccer playing demographic dominate those weight classes?

the HW demographic in america, that now plays football and basketball, once dominated the division.


you guys just don't like america. it is what it is.

America dominated the HW division when Eastern European HWs weren't allowed to compete..... Funny that when they WERE allowed to compete in the 90s, that's when the so called "decline" in American HW boxing started. Kinda ironic how the lucrative opportunities Anerican HWs had in the decades prior, switched over to NBA/NFL when Eastern Europeans were able to compete....

Weak arguement is weak. I could just say Ameicas public interest in HW division started waning when EAstern Europeans started fighting and winning.... And again ironically, that's the same time frame where NFL/NBA players started getting paid more then American HWS..

Pls go.


The lower weight classes/European soccer arguement is completely relevant if your American HW/NFL/ NBA argument is relevant. Europe never dominated lower weight classes? Cool. America never dominated higher weight classes when Eastern Europeans were allowed to compete.... Again, ironically when the EE's were allowed to compete and EE's started beating Ameican HWs....American interest in HW division declined. "Nooo America Internet in HW declined because the lucrative opportunities in the NBA/NFL were far greater" you say? AGAIN.... Ironically the huge money in American HW boxing went to NBA/NFL when Eastern Europeans started competing...


lol @ you.

[Drunken Cat]

Anyone who doesn't realise that America's heavyweights are competing elsewhere is an idiot. But by the same merit, that isn't the reason for European dominance. In an ideal world, the American heavyweight scene would still be going strong when the Eastern bloc fighters emerged but it is what it is.

Heavyweight won't be the only division Europe dominates in the near future...

No need to start calling names.

But if all the American heavyweights are in the NBA, why were there no 6'5 heavyweight champions prior to Lewis and Bowe? Ever?

[Sparked_26]

No need to start calling names.

But if all the American heavyweights are in the NBA, why were there no 6'5 heavyweight champions prior to Lewis and Bowe? Ever?

Interesting point that!

[Fury]

Uummm just to update you in your boxing knowledge thats called a knock down not a knock out.

Knocked the **** over

[Cutthroat]

No need to start calling names.

But if all the American heavyweights are in the NBA, why were there no 6'5 heavyweight champions prior to Lewis and Bowe? Ever?

People are much bigger these days with proper diet and nutrition. The HW division has been in a decline since around the 70's, the same time NBA/NFL salaries exploded, same time both collegiate basketball and football exploded as well.

Idk why you think a HW champ needs to be 6'5, 6'2 is a perfect height, even a guy like Mike Tyson who stood around 5'9. It's all about talent pool, the biggest most athletic kids will play basketball or football. What you're getting in boxing is the leftovers, most of them only box because their family boxed (take Ward for example), how many kids do you think actually tell their parents they want to learn to box?




Remember guys like Tyson, Bowe, Morrison, Holyfield, Ruddock, Mercer etc. were all born around the mid to late 60's, growing up in the 70's when boxing was still a very popular sport in America. Right before basketball and football really started to explode.

[Cutthroat]

America dominated the HW division when Eastern European HWs weren't allowed to compete..... Funny that when they WERE allowed to compete in the 90s, that's when the so called "decline" in American HW boxing started. Kinda ironic how the lucrative opportunities Anerican HWs had in the decades prior, switched over to NBA/NFL when Eastern Europeans were able to compete....

Weak arguement is weak. I could just say Ameicas public interest in HW division started waning when EAstern Europeans started fighting and winning.... And again ironically, that's the same time frame where NFL/NBA players started getting paid more then American HWS..

Pls go.


The lower weight classes/European soccer arguement is completely relevant if your American HW/NFL/ NBA argument is relevant. Europe never dominated lower weight classes? Cool. America never dominated higher weight classes when Eastern Europeans were allowed to compete.... Again, ironically when the EE's were allowed to compete and EE's started beating Ameican HWs....American interest in HW division declined. "Nooo America Internet in HW declined because the lucrative opportunities in the NBA/NFL were far greater" you say? AGAIN.... Ironically the huge money in American HW boxing went to NBA/NFL when Eastern Europeans started competing...


lol @ you.

No, lol @ you for thinking the best America can produce is Chris Arreola lol.


From Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier (TWO GUYS BORN IN THE 1940's!) going 14 rounds in Manila, outdoors in 100 degree weather with 90% humidity, to guys punching themselves out by the 7th round lol. Not to mention they did all that in an absolute war. Do you understand what kind of amazing endurance it takes to do what those two did, especially with the technology they had?


So it regresses from that to fat asses like Arreola, Chambers, blown up cruisers being the best Americans in the division. Honestly, are you that ignorant to believe this is the best America can produce? If you can't see the difference in skill level you should stop watching boxing.

[Drunken Cat]

People are much bigger these days with proper diet and nutrition. The HW division has been in a decline since around the 70's, the same time NBA/NFL salaries exploded, same time both collegiate basketball and football exploded as well.

Idk why you think a HW champ needs to be 6'5, 6'2 is a perfect height, even a guy like Mike Tyson who stood around 5'9. It's all about talent pool, the biggest most athletic kids will play basketball or football. What you're getting in boxing is the leftovers, most of them only box because their family boxed (take Ward for example), how many kids do you think actually tell their parents they want to learn to box?




Remember guys like Tyson, Bowe, Morrison, Holyfield, Ruddock, Mercer etc. were all born around the mid to late 60's, growing up in the 70's when boxing was still a very popular sport in America. Right before basketball and football really started to explode.

Actually, you have missed my point absolutely. Not even close.

You have to understand it in the context of the debate we were having though.

[Drunken Cat]

Another thing that people need to realize is that there is nuance. There are a bunch of factors, probably all or most of them have some role. But the debate basically centers around what you think is the primary factor (or factors), and the extent to which others are relevant, that is the degree to which their purported effects are of decisive significance. It's an interesting topic, but we could debate it for quite a while.

[Drunken Cat]

No, lol @ you for thinking the best America can produce is Chris Arreola lol.


From Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier (TWO GUYS BORN IN THE 1940's!) going 14 rounds in Manila, outdoors in 100 degree weather with 90% humidity, to guys punching themselves out by the 7th round lol. Not to mention they did all that in an absolute war. Do you understand what kind of amazing endurance it takes to do what those two did, especially with the technology they had?


So it regresses from that to fat asses like Arreola, Chambers, blown up cruisers being the best Americans in the division. Honestly, are you that ignorant to believe this is the best America can produce? If you can't see the difference in skill level you should stop watching boxing.

Again, I agree, but I see it as more symptomatic of a general decline in boxing generally, not the siphoning off of talent. They are somewhat related, but the thing is that boxing use to be mainstream. I don't buy this notion of a narrow athlete pool shopping around for the most profitable sport. If boxing were still big in the US, as it was before, more people would be drawn to it. That this is not the case does not necessarily mean that these would-be boxers are in the NFL.

Again, I think that the reason guys with limited boxing skills but great physique and athletic ability can come to boxing from basketball or football and find some success really reflects the state of boxing more than anything else. In a highly competitive era, it would be much less common.

[D-MiZe]

No need to start calling names.

But if all the American heavyweights are in the NBA, why were there no 6'5 heavyweight champions prior to Lewis and Bowe? Ever?

What does height have to do with American heavyweights?

If you take the records of how many American heavyweight professionals there was pre-90s and post 90s, you'd see a big difference. Height is completely irrelevant.