Greater fighter, Harry Wills or Sam Langford?

[titanium]

They were both great, why do we have to rate on over the other?

[Spartacus Sully]

And for the record, I voted Wills because I know you made this thread per our discussion in the Dempsey thread where I clearly highlighted it was only at heavyweight.

As I also said in that thread, Langford is by far the better fighter all round and his resume is much better than Wills' overall.

"Greater all timer"

"Greater fighter, Harry Wills or Sam Langford?"

Why did you vote wills if you agree that Langford is the greater fighter?

[LacedUp]

"Greater all timer"

"Greater fighter, Harry Wills or Sam Langford?"

Why did you vote wills if you agree that Langford is the greater fighter?

Because myself and Weltschmerz had a discussion about Langford's ranking as a Heavyweight, and now he made this thread twisting the title and not really asking the question we were discussing in the first place.

You might want to look at the Dempsey thread on the last pages. There, Weltschmerz had Langford #5 heavyweight of all times. Which doesn't make sense. And so I simply asked where Harry Wills, the guy that beat Langford in 90% of their bouts is on that list.

Weltschmerz then proceeded to say Langford was a greater fighter overall, which really had nothing to do with the question at hand, but merely reflects his lack of credibility.

So the reason I voted Wills is because he is the greater heavyweight, which is what we discussed in the first place.

[Rspen46]

I use to feel the same way about these fighters, I always thought Wills to be the best, then Jennette, but I've some considerable time lately, thoroughly going over their careers and all the fights against each other, I began by doing my best to pick the Prime years of each fighter, then their Post and the end and beginning years are basically set, next I went through each bout with every fighter and gave more credit to the bouts they had against each other in their Primes, and then I picked them in order who I thought was the best, here is my order, Jack Johnson, although not much to go on with the other and him, Sam Langford, Sam Macvey then I have Jennette & Wills tied for last, here is a little info to support my decisions, Wills and Langford had 2 Prime fights 1 was a Draw the other Sam Knocked him out in 14 so the Prime edge fights go to Sam, they had 8 fights with Harry Prime and Sam Post-Prime, 1 Draw, 2 fights where everyone thought they did not want to hurt each other, so that leaves 6 in this category, with Harry going 5-1 winning all 5 by Points, some were fairly close, Sam Knocked Harry out in his only win here, then 5 bouts with Harry still in Prime while Same was in End Career mode, half blind and well nearly done, 5-0 for Harry, 3 by points, 1 Ko 1 TKO, in my opinion, if Harry were Prime he should have won all 5 or at least 4 by KO or TKO not points with Sam at the end of his long Career, so I give Sam the edge here based on the 2 Prime vs Prime bouts, cause he Knocked out Harry in Prime, h also Knocked Harry out in Prime while he was Post Prime, so edge to Sam as Harry is obviously the better fighter as Sam slips in his Career while he is Prime, and I rated Sam Langford over the others except Johnson, as they fought once in Prime vs Prime and Jack won on pts. in 15 with Sam down in the 6th, so edge to Jack, which puts him in the #1 spot,

Langford & Jennette had 7 bouts in Prime vs Prime, with Sam 5-0 with 2 Draws, so Sam clearly ranks over Joe here.

That leaves Macvey vs Sam Langford, They had 7 bouts in Prime vs Prime, Langford was 4-1 with 2 Draws and 1 TKO and 1 KO over Macvey, so to me, Langford is the clear vote here also,

Wills vs Macvey was a little tougher as they fought only 6x & only 3 in Prime vs Prime, in those 3 bouts, Macvey was 2-1 all 3 points wins for each fighter in these, 2 bouts had Harry in Prime with Macvey at the end of his career and done, Harry 2-0 with 1 KO and a 20 round points win, then 1 more bout with Harry in Post-Prime and Sam at the end still, it was a NO Contest, so here I must give the edge to Sam Macvey,

Harry Wills vs Joe Jennette, No Prime vs Prime to judge these 2, 1st 2 bouts had Harry in Pre-Prime and Joe in Post-Prime, both Draws, you had a Young and upcoming guy vs a Solid Veteran, so who gets the edge there, could be either or both, the 3rd bout Harry was Prime and Joe at the end of his Career, Harry won on Points, he should have Won by TKO or KO, you could actually give Joe an edge, but based on how both did against the others, I rate them even in last place among these fighters.

My rankins,
#1 Jack Johnson
#2 Sam Langford
#3 Sam Macvey
Tied for 4th Place Joe Jennette & Harry Wills

[rightsideup]

i think i would go with Sam although harry did better h2h because of his size and younger age. Sam went thru many divisions fighting a variety of special combatants and also Sam was Canadian.

[The Old LefHook]

Can't people even look at dates and do a bit of reasoning first? Langford was washed up before Wills started beating him regularly?

Given the size disparity, Wills might have had his number anyway, had their primes matched up. Not as an all time P4P great, though. Langford was greater. Wills was slow. I would probably pick Tunney to beat him, though Harry's height advantage might have bothered him. They almost signed once. I believe it was exterior pressures rather than Tunney's preferences that scrapped the fight.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Langford by far...

[rightsideup]

Langford by far...

yes maybe by far is may tend to hurt harry s legacy but Sam was indeed special

[Scott9945]

Langford by far...

I'm shocked by the results of this poll. If the question was greater heavyweight, then maybe Wills. Better all time fighter, not even close.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I'm shocked by the results of this poll. If the question was greater heavyweight, then maybe Wills. Better all time fighter, not even close.

Yeah me too...

Langford fought everyone from middleweight to heavy, and had tons of success.. A guy like james toney is nothing more than a poor man's version of langford.. No disrespect to wills, but langford probably fought at the widest range of weight than any fighter in history, and he had great success in doing so.