Mike Tyson under-appreciated

[Mugwump]

Spinks
Holmes
Foreman
Frazier x 3
Norton x 3
Shavers
Liston x 2
Lyle

is a list of "TOP TIER" heavies.

James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tony Tucker
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Carl Williams
Frank Bruno 2x
Razor Ruddock 2x
Andrew Golota

is not.

[masta]

Tyson's overall career wasn't an all-time great one but he did accomplish a good amount in his prime.

The good old 'could have been' applies to Tyson.

[Princemanspopa]

Posting Ali's rusume in comparison to any other heavyweight is stupid and pointless as everyone is aware of his resume and it's that resume why Ali is regarded as the greatest heavyweight of all time,by the way you forgot Jerry Quarry and Floyd Patterson on that list but you know nothing about boxing to really have any idea on who these two fighters are,and Leon Spinks a top tier heavyweight? Are you serious? Lol,what a clodge.Leon never accomplished **** other than catch Ali at the right time,all the heavyweights I listed were far greater than Leon Spinks.

[Jiddu Dali]

I agree completely,you get the odd newb who think they know something about boxing and will claim Tyson never fought or beat anyone of note,that he was overrated blah blah blah.

Tyson fought virtually every top heavyweight of his prime and beat them very convincingly.

Every fighter starts off with bums as did Tyson,but when Tyson made the step up he was still defeating the top heavyweights as easily as he was knocking out the scrubs and journeyman earlier in his career.

Tyson's resume stands at

James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tony Tucker
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Carl Williams
Frank Bruno 2x
Razor Ruddock 2x
Andrew Golota

All but two of those victories came just before Tyson was locked up for the rape charge at the age of 26.

Tyson was a fighting machine,blessed with extraordinary speed and power and mixed defense with offense as well as any fighter there ever has been.His prime was short and he blew it all but he made as great an impact in those three to four years as well as any fighter in history.He most certainly is a legendary fighter and personality and he most certainly is a top ten heavyweight.

I have always and will always be a fan of Kid Dynamite Mike "Gerard" Tyson.

He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

[Princemanspopa]

He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

That's not a fact you silly ****.Razor Ruddock stood up to him and took two beatings in return.Five years is actually a long time,you name me one fighter who was great after such a lengthy absence from the ring and don't claim Ray Robinson because he wasn't.Fighters are never the same after returning from such a long layoff - Ali,Tyson,Louis,Robinson,Leonard none of these men were the same so don't spout such utter nonsense next time,Idiot.

[The Iron Man]

Tyson gets alot a stick for losing to Holyfield, but noone really takes this into consideration:

After a 3 year lay off in prison he had fought 8 rounds of boxing against, McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr, Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon.

Whoever uses the old nutshell of "anyone who stood up to Tyson beat him" hasnt seen all of Tysons fights.

[Benny Leonard]

Which is hardly a who's who of boxing legends. And the first fighter that stood up to him pretty much ended his career.

You are one of the parrots people talk about.

Seriously, the "first person that stood up to him"?

Have you ever watched his fights?

People came at him and they changed their mind after they got hurt because they went into defense mode which tends to happen when you are getting beat up.

I guess it helped that he was **** both mentally and physically that night when he fought Douglas. Yeah, that's standing up to someone. Tyson's fault for not being in shape but that only proves that Tyson wasn't good when he wasn't prepared...like all boxers tend to be.

Tyson ended his career on his own doing by...and I'll quote Floyd Patterson's words after he lost to Douglas and upon being asked to give advise to Tyson..."Remember what got you there."


With your way of thinking, maybe the whole thing with Ali was just an illusion and he was beaten the moment somebody didn't buy into his mouth/words that tended to psyche people out, but Men like Frazier, Spinks, Norton, Holmes and Berbick it didn't work on. Just laugh or shut your ears off and you can beat "The Butterfly"

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THE SCHOLAR CONSIDERS:
An Interview With Boxing Historian Herbert G. Goldman

By Katherine Dunn



Another man-- a shame what’s happened to him, and I’d say the only man who could have beaten him eventually did beat him, and that was himself—Mike Tyson. Now Mike Tyson’s style—talking about a boxer learning from boxers of the past—and it’s amazing that more has not been made of this. Mike Tyson’s style is Jack Dempsey, completely. The way he comes in quickly with a bob and weave, ducks down low and comes up with a smashing left hook to the larger man’s head and face, that’s Jack Dempsey. When Tyson turned pro he even came into the ring with the sides of his head shaven in emulation of Jack Dempsey. There is no doubt about this. No socks, low shoes, black trunks. This was a young man who studied old fight films like crazy. And he found that the style of Jack Dempsey was more conducive to his own abilities than any other style. And that’s what he developed.

KD -- I always felt that Tyson was a small heavyweight and he was often misunderstood and under-rated in terms of the level of genuine skill that he brought into the ring.

HG -- That’s right. A lot of people did not understand what they were watching when they saw Mike Tyson. He was not some slugger as such.

KD -- He was not a super-power in terms of his physical strength

HG -- Oh no. One thing about Mike Tyson that I don’t think a lot of people understand because of, let’s say his psychological-social problems, a lot of people think he’s some kind of stupid brute. He’s not. He happens to be, as far as I can see-- and I don’t know the man but I have had a couple of conversations with him-- an intelligent young man. He’s probably one of the most intelligent fighters, certainly in terms of boxing, that we’ve seen. His emulation of the Jack Dempsey’s style. His knowledge of boxing history is considerable, by the way, and when you listen to him, this is not a stupid man. He’s a very misunderstood boxer, and people also do not understand that his skills eroded after a certain period. People will say Ah he was never anything,. They start to question him all the way back. No. He peaked when he knocked out Michael Spinks in the first round. But beginning about a year after that he really started to go down hill.

KD -- That was a period when he had separated from Rooney, his remaining D’Amato trainer, and he no longer had a real trainer who understood his style.

HG -- Right. Tyson was a fighter who needed a certain edge. He needed to be on edge. And when he lost that he lost a tremendous amount. He still has too much power and over-all ability for ninety or ninety-five percent of all the fighters out there. There’s no question about that. But at his peak I can’t imagine—and I say this with all respect and deference for Evander Holyfield—but at his peak I can’t imagine Tyson being defeated by Holyfield. At his peak he would have been a terrific fight even for the peak Muhammad Ali.




http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w42x-kd.htm

[Benny Leonard]

Tyson gets alot a stick for losing to Holyfield, but noone really takes this into consideration:

After a 3 year lay off in prison he had fought 8 rounds of boxing against, McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr, Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon.

Whoever uses the old nutshell of "anyone who stood up to Tyson beat him" hasnt seen all of Tysons fights.

Besides Tyson not having the tools to be a fighter anymore...Holyfield said Tyson hadn't been hit yet (since he got out of prison) which is what Holy planned to do with him....hit him hard and rough him up. I think this is also why Holy blew himself up physically.

Unlike Ali who after a 3 year layoff trained his body back in boxing shape by taking punishment during sparring, Tyson didn't do any of that. Just another reason why Ali is smarter than Tyson but not many made like Ali.
Tyson relied to much on Rooney and it cost him. Ali was a General and Tyson was a Soldier.

[Benny Leonard]

He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

Prime is marked down when you are still at your best...still have the tools that got you to the top. Tyson wasn't the same fighter by the time he got to Douglas. Mike Tyson said he was planning on retiring after Spinks. And in a way, he did just that by getting rid of what got him there...Kevin Rooney, training and motivation.


Simple question: Can that version of Tyson that fought Douglas beat any version of Tyson from his fight with Berbick to Spinks? Can that version even come close to beating him?

Even the Tyson that showed up against Ruddock would get beaten by a younger version of himself. Why? Because he actually trained, motivated and had a game-plan to win.
It's also the knock on Tyson that I use: Rooney was key for him. Rooney trained him, built up his confidence, guided him through fights, and game-planned for him. Now, many, if not all Boxers need trainers that are right for them, so it isn't a total knock on Tyson, but Tyson wasn't like say, Ali, who was mostly his own man and came up with his own strategy (even though he was said to have asked D'Amato's opinion from time to time as well)...and could mostly train himself and motivate himself. But Ali still needed Dundee and Dundee came in handy plenty of times, but Ali was less reliable on Dundee than Tyson was with Rooney. Plus, again, the smarts with Ali made sure he kept Dundee unlike Tyson who got rid of Rooney.




By the way, besides other fighters coming at him, Ruddock was by far the top fighter that wasn't scared at all of Tyson. So much so that Ruddock used to talk right back at Tyson. And in fights, threw bombs at him even when he was getting bombed back.

It still takes talent to beat Tyson because if it was that simple, just attack him, just stand up to him, he would have lost way before he threw it away against Douglas.
Also remember that Tyson wanted the rematch with Douglas and Douglas refused.

[Verstyle]

The one's that Tyson probably don't know too much about him in fighting, his style, achievements and dedication in the 80's. There are reasons why many do not do Tyson's style, too hard to do and takes a lot of dedication.

His achievements alone are great. He earned his title shots and earned and achieved them quickly within 2 years. Not many have done that. So for the ppl that talk down on him I usually just laugh and go on. I know and what I feel and that's in my heart. Real talk.