How would Klitschko's career have looked without the use of illegal tactics?

[LacedUp]

I could name any fight, you will downplay it. Just know I've called out Wlad for his Baldomir vs Mayweather type fights.

Not really, I can mention one or two fights.

Contrary to what others may think, I actually thought Wlad looked good against Haye. Probably the best I've seen him look in the last 10 years. Calvin Brock was good I suppose and Sam Peter II.

[daggum]

well he wasn't very good without them and we had a large sample size of about 45 fights so i don't see any reason he would have gotten any better. His one weakness was when his opponents threw punches at him and with his holding tactics he has reduced their ability to do that greatly.

[titanium]

First choice is "undisputed like he is today". Wlad is not and has never been undisputed champion. Not yet anyways.

[LacedUp]

First choice is "undisputed like he is today". Wlad is not and has never been undisputed champion. Not yet anyways.

I consider him undisputed champion as he was the only champion in the division when the other champion retired and just because someone picked up a vacant belt, it doesn't mean anything.

Stiverne doesn't have a claim to be the champion in the division.

[Weltschmerz]

The question should maybe be how would he have turned out with another trainer. Steward made him use his advantages, ugly or not. I don't think his clinching is horrible, Povetkin fight aside.

[Elroy1]

well he wasn't very good without them and we had a large sample size of about 45 fights so i don't see any reason he would have gotten any better. His one weakness was when his opponents threw punches at him and with his holding tactics he has reduced their ability to do that greatly.

Daggum I don't think you've ever seen a Klitschko fight previous to the holding.

You are talking about a guy who in 45 fights completely decimated any man put in front of him, nearly ALL knockouts! and early! and with technical precision plus aggression. And in only a single instance was HE ever caught early and knocked out himself!

Not very good?

[LacedUp]

The question should maybe be how would he have turned out with another trainer. Steward made him use his advantages, ugly or not. I don't think his clinching is horrible, Povetkin fight aside.

I suppose the question I was trying to ask, is what had happened if he'd continued with Fritz or Roach.

[Elroy1]

I suppose the question I was trying to ask, is what had happened if he'd continued with Fritz or Roach.

Well, I think, if he didn't learn to clinch, he would have maybe 1 more loss on his record, possibly 2.

I would identify perhaps Samuel Peter being the one to serve him a loss in the 1st fight. Probably not others though.

And I think he would likely finished his opponents much faster. He would always have been a dominant force, just like with Lenny getting starched by Rahman, he'd always come straight back. Nobody could hold a belt for long with Wladimir around.

What Steward really achieved with Wladimir, was ensured that he never got starched again by making about as defensively impenetrable as possible, at the expense of a more protracted and monotonous experience for the fans to watch who prefer more risk/action.

What I can't do is blame Wladimir for wanting to completely shut out his opponent and win without getting hurt, when he doesn't have to!

It's ironic, in the aftermath of the Sanders bout you can hear Foreman and the HBO team discussing "WK HAS to learn how to clinch, it's like he doesn't know how to!"

If only they knew!

But that's the thing with Wladimir, he is probably the greatest example of any boxer that learned from his lessons and each time made the necessary adjustments to never allow it to happen again, until he became virtually invincible.

[BigZigga]

well he wasn't very good without them and we had a large sample size of about 45 fights so i don't see any reason he would have gotten any better. His one weakness was when his opponents threw punches at him and with his holding tactics he has reduced their ability to do that greatly.

To be fair, that is kinda every boxer's weakness

[daggum]

Daggum I don't think you've ever seen a Klitschko fight previous to the holding.

You are talking about a guy who in 45 fights completely decimated any man put in front of him, nearly ALL knockouts! and early! and with technical precision plus aggression. And in only a single instance was HE ever caught early and knocked out himself!

Not very good?

well he was 2-2 against top 10 competition and was also was knocked out by a journeyman so he wasn't very good until he developed his holding tactics.