Swedish govt in “panic” after ISIS letters give 3 days to convert to Islam or be deca

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

The thing with the teachings in the Qu'ran is the only ****s who take it literal are the Wahabi followers. I'm sure I could find a quote or two in the Qu'ran about bunny rabbits and candy floss.

Zakat is a sort of tax/contribution collected by the Muslims and then the proceeds are used to feed the poor, pay off people's debts, buy out slave contracts and fund Jihad etc. Ramadam is a time when followers are meant to work on becoming a better Muslim.

Your last paragraph really summed it up though. Any **** can make a fatwa or hadith and proclaim it to be the truth, this is what Wahabi did and this is why we're in this mess. Although the Ottoman Empire had an opportunity to beat these ****s hundreds of years ago. Another problem with Islam is that it considers itself as the final version, the one true religion.

Yes, we agree. So do you now see that we are not attacking Muslims? When you have a religion like this, with these teachings, it CAN be dangerous.

I have said it before to my progressive liberal friends that disagree with me. I tell them take the holy book burning test.

Burn a bible, burn a Torah and burn a Quran. Put it on youtube for the world to see and let me know which one brings you serious threats of violence. There's a reason Ayaan Hisri Ali has to have bodyguards 24/7, why Salman Rushdie was in hiding for over a decade, why Theo Van gogh was murdered in broad daylight in Amsterdam.

Yet the Last Temptation of Christ comes out and the worse we get is Christians cutting the movie screens in theaters. There is a difference, we need to address that.

[BKM-]

Do you believe that 1/4 of the world's population are a collective hive mind that all ascribe to one belief?

My logic is that they're human first and human motivations cause us to pursue things like religion that offer answers and comfort. Thus, I cannot categorize every Muslim as a potential terrorist.

If Islam really was the religion of terror and the Qu'ran really incited such hatred amongst fellow men then we'd see a lot more fighting and ISIS would have about 250x the members it does now.

1.7 billion people are muslims, 10% of that is 170 million, 1% is 17 million. Shall I keep going? I mean, how many ISIS members are we talking here? Tens of thousands? .1% is 1.7 million. Can you see how minuscule the percentage of Muslims that are terrorists is?

You tried to make the worldwide muslim population look as large as possible while trying to downplay the size of Isis as much as possible. This is your tactic to downplay your religion's radical numbers which is extremely dishonest.

First of all try a number closer to 1.5 billion, 1.6 at the absolute most and they're not that solid because it is difficult to get accurate numbers from third world countries like a lot of the desert areas of Africa and the middle east. Islamic sources will try to make their population look as big as possible as they pride themselves on that.

Secondly, the estimated total of Isis militants has gone up to as much as 300.000, not just "tens of thousands". It is likely that that is a more accurate number considering their expansion which is done by a majority of unskilled savages. They would NEED numbers to thrive like that.

Third, you act like Isis is the only thing left. You pretend to forget about the Taliban, Al Queda(yes they're still around), The Chechens, boko Haram, Al Nusra, tons of other sects all over the Asian and African world. 60.000 of the Taliban are around, up to 30.000 of Al Queda.

Fourthly, you have to keep in mind that since the 80s, hundreds of thousands of militant muslim terrorists have been killed. If they had not been killed they would still be around as terrorists today. If you take that into account, the numbers of muslims terrorists are up to millions and millions.

Lastly, it is not just about actual terrorists who take up arms and blow themselves up in the name of islam. It's about the fact that the majority of islamic countries either have sharia or a less severe form of sharia, and just because they don't have the means to take up arms and fight does not make them any less horrible people. Said countries are also mostly poor, and poverty makes people act even worse.

That is why it is more accurate to say that the 30 to 40 million muslims living in Europe and the rest of the west could be excluded from radical islam. So only a couple of % of all muslims are not radicals, and yet even they would vote for the killing of muhammad cartoonists, death to apostles and stuff like that, when they vote in anonymous polls. We have evidence of that.

So yes I believe almost all muslims are a threat filled with ticking timebombs(no pun). Pretty much all because the ones who aren't, aren't followin their religion truly. I'd say 1 to 2% aren't.

[D-MiZe]

Another false argument. We agree that most Muslims are not violent, and most don't adhere to these teachings. That is NOT the discussion we need to have. We all agree on that, and it's been beaten to death.

Our point is that there are violent teachings in the Quran and Hadiths. We see groups like ISIS, Boko Haram etc adhere to these teachings and carry them out.

Also, the so called "moderates" in Islam are the problem as well. Because they may not want to kill people, they may not want to stone people to death, but they agree with it. In shocking numbers might I add. So we are not attacking the people, we are criticizing the religion and that's a very important distinction.

You are Muslim correct? So let me ask you this, do you think that ****sexuality is a correct way to live your life and if not, what do you think the punishment for ****sexuality should be?

I know, Cua - it was in response to BKM though. I need to start saving this shit in notepad so I can just copy & paste.

I'd say it's largely ignorance based on the region from which Islam comes from. I'm sure they're fed propaganda over there about how sinful the West is, how decadent we have become. Well you little scraggly bearded ****, the West ain't so bad when you got a pair **** in your face and beer in hand.

Yea, like I said I think we need an ambassador of the Islamic world who preaches tolerance and acceptance and is also given the platform from which as many Muslims as possible can hear him. I believe this is the only way to get rid of radicalisation in Islam although I fear it may be a long time until that happens. Although, we're criticising the religion and not the people the people won't see it like that. They believe they're put on this planet for the sole purpose of worshipping him. Peeps take that shit seriously. Absurdly so, always gives me a chuckle when an anti-Islamic speech is being made and Muslims have attended. They don't have any concept of free speech.

Cua, I don't think there has been a bigger thorn in the religious ****s side on this site than me. I don't troll 'em like I used to and my anti-theist belief (lololol anti-theism is a belief system) don't get spouted but you know I think religion is a poison.

[Hitman Hodgson]

This is as true today, as it was 3 years ago.

[ИATAS]

Sorry NATAS but this is progressive nonsense and BS.

Progressive BS in what sense? What I'm saying has been said for over 100 years.

The idea that the west has caused violence in Islam is false. All you need to do is do some research and see how Islam was spread in the Middle East and western world.

How are you going to seriously say this with a straight face knowing for 100% FACT the US funded ISIS up until very recently? And as we know, ISIS certainly isn't the only extremist group the US has funded over the years and continues to fund to this day.

Most don't know this, but the Crusades were a RESPONSE to Islamic incursion on the west. Islam had one of the biggest empires in human history and they didn't get it by preaching the Quran. They achieved that by the sword, and very brutally.

There is literally no point discussing ancient history and how Islam spread. You think Islam is the only religion that spread across regions due to large empires? How do you think Christianity spread?! What a weird point to make considering Christianities BRUTAL history across the entire globe. But that is neither here nor there and has no real relevance to today's problems or thread.

ISIS is a result of the vacuum left by Saddam, I will agree. But to bring up what Christians did 500 years ago is utter nonsense. You have to dig up hundred of year old history to even compare what Christians have done, and yes it was done I don't deny that.

That's a false equivalency though, we are dealing with issues in 2015, not the 1400's. We need to address the threat of radical Islam today, and stop this PC bull**** about how it's only the radicals and it's not a representation of Islam.

What an insanely bizarre post. I didn't bring up ancient history, you did. Nowhere in my post did I reference anything from hundreds of years ago. Everything I referenced is recent history (ongoing, in fact). You reply to my post, start talking about the crusades and THEN tell me to stop talking about hundreds of years ago? Were you talking to yourself?

It is a representation of Islam, a very strict and fundamental one, but it is Islam. Beliefs matter, and we can't ignore that. Because the vast majority of the Islamic world doesn't carry out this violence, doesn't mean they are the only one's that agree with this doctrine.

Excellent logic. The United Holy Salvation Army and Uganda Christian Army/Movement is a representation of Christianity, a very strict and fundamental one, but it is Christianity. Beliefs matter, and we can't ignore that. Because the vast majority of the Chrstian world doesn't carry out this violence, doesn't mean they are the only one's that agree with this doctrine.

The LRA only care about "ruling Uganda according to the Ten Commandments". That's it man. Pure Christian beliefs.

All religions are not the same. We need to acknowledge that, and be adult in that conversations without thinking we are attacking Muslims or being bigoted.

You must not read the lounge then, or simply agree with the stuff posted here (I know you do because I've seen it with my own eyes). My point is to look deeper and stop making everything so simplistic, so black & white. Christianity = good. Islam = bad. Try digging deeper. I've seen zero attempt from you in this thread to understand what causes radical beliefs to emerge in the first place and what kind of conditions need to be in place.

Yes, I read it and have made myself familiar with the transformation that Islam has taken to a more radical form.

My point is that if you look at the history of Christianity for example, it has gotten less and less radical. The teachings of Christianity are not as radical as Islam in terms of it's political leanings, and what Jesus meant for that religion, but it was reformed nonetheless.

Once again you fail to understand why that might be. What is the recent history of the regions where radical Islam is at it's strongest? Are you refusing to look any deeper than simply saying "Christianity has gotten better, Islam worse"? This is crazy. If the tables were turned, and the West was majority Islamic and the mid-east Christian, the same type of extremism would exist just with a different holy scripture being used. You are a christian yourself so your opinion is biased of course, compared to an Atheist such as myself who views religions one in the same (especially Christianity, Judaism and Islam, which could not exist without each other).

"Christianity has gotten less and less radical". Where are you referring to? In the US, a 1st world country? In other European "Christian" countries? No crap. The conditions dictate that. What about in Africa, where Christian extremism is horrifyingly brutal? It's convenient to leave those countries out isn't it?

[D-MiZe]

It might appear I'm being contradictory but stating Islam isn't entirely at fault and then saying that religion is poison. Imagine all religion is a pile of shit and each religion is a fly on said shit. Now, there's always a chance that one of those flies picks up a nasty little virus and then spreads it to those around him. You can't blame the fly for being infected it's the chance you take when you eat shit.

[D-MiZe]

You tried to make the worldwide muslim population look as large as possible while trying to downplay the size of Isis as much as possible. This is your tactic to downplay your religion's radical numbers which is extremely dishonest.

So yes I believe almost all muslims are a threat filled with ticking timebombs(no pun). Pretty much all because the ones who aren't, aren't followin their religion truly. I'd say 1 to 2% aren't.

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/t...im-population/

We're in 2015, between 2010s 1.6 figure and 2020s 1.9 - I'd say my estimate was solid. Also, 50% of Muslims are most likely women so your figure is off by tens of percentages.

The CIA estimate 30k ISIS troops, ISIS themselves say 100k and you've got the Kurds saying 200k. They certainly aren't 300k strong.

[D-MiZe]

I made the point but Natas brought it up and I'm going to reiterate that shit again because I feel it's the most important part.
The Middle East is a **** hole.

The top societies we see today, '1st rate countries' are so because of secular intervention and laws/rules based on logic and reasoning. Middle East is very close minded, I mean they're killing ****s over there who disagree with some of their barbarism. Those ****s also happen to be fellow Muslims too.

This poor ****er insulted Islam, ended up with 1000 lashes, 10 years in jail and a fine;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raif_Badawi


You'll get the same with any religion in a shitty, uncivilized area.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Progressive BS in what sense? What I'm saying has been said for over 100 years.
How are you going to seriously say this with a straight face knowing for 100% FACT the US funded ISIS up until very recently? And as we know, ISIS certainly isn't the only extremist group the US has funded over the years and continues to fund to this day.

Because there is ISIS, and the west has attributed to it's rise, doesn't mean Islam hasn't been violent before the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was my point.

There is literally no point discussing ancient history and how Islam spread. You think Islam is the only religion that spread across regions due to large empires? How do you think Christianity spread?! What a weird point to make considering Christianities BRUTAL history across the entire globe. But that is neither here nor there and has no real relevance to today's problems or thread.

Again, we need to make the distinction between what the theology preaches and what it's followers do. As I have now stated a few times, Christians committing violence in the name of Jesus, goes against his teachings. You cannot say the same about Islam and Mohamed. It's just not equivalent.

What an insanely bizarre post. I didn't bring up ancient history, you did. Nowhere in my post did I reference anything from hundreds of years ago. Everything I referenced is recent history (ongoing, in fact). You reply to my post, start talking about the crusades and THEN tell me to stop talking about hundreds of years ago? Were you talking to yourself?

Sorry, you are correct. I wasn't referring to you, but rather a post from Demize talking about the Crusades and Witch burning. Even though, as I stated above, you cannot be violent and follow the teachings of Christ. That is a contradiction. Whereas the same cannot be said for Islam and Mohamed. A Janist that kills, isn't a Janist.

Excellent logic. The United Holy Salvation Army and Uganda Christian Army/Movement is a representation of Christianity, a very strict and fundamental one, but it is Christianity. Beliefs matter, and we can't ignore that. Because the vast majority of the Chrstian world doesn't carry out this violence, doesn't mean they are the only one's that agree with this doctrine.

The LRA only care about "ruling Uganda according to the Ten Commandments". That's it man. Pure Christian beliefs.

This is more of a theological debate and Christianity isn't that simple. There is a theological reason Christians aren't stoning people to death, killing ****sexuals, stoning adulterous women etc. The New Testament and the teachings of Jesus changed that. That of course is another topic for discussion.

You must not read the lounge then, or simply agree with the stuff posted here (I know you do because I've seen it with my own eyes). My point is to look deeper and stop making everything so simplistic, so black & white. Christianity = good. Islam = bad. Try digging deeper. I've seen zero attempt from you in this thread to understand what causes radical beliefs to emerge in the first place and what kind of conditions need to be in place.

Christianity is most definitely not good. If you have read the history of my posts, you will see that clearly. At the same time, it's also simplistic to think that because the west has waged wars in the Middle East, that is the reason for terrorism. Sure, it has given a rise to it, and I was and am opposed to the wars, but I cannot say that Islam was peaceful until that point in history.

Radicalism in Islam has been brought by geo politics, I agree. Radicalism in Islam was also brought because of a strict reading of the Quran as well. Islam doesn't need the fuel to the fire so to speak that is the west, it has been and will be violent all on it's own as it has shown for centuries.

Once again you fail to understand why that might be. What is the recent history of the regions where radical Islam is at it's strongest? Are you refusing to look any deeper than simply saying "Christianity has gotten better, Islam worse"? This is crazy. If the tables were turned, and the West was majority Islamic and the mid-east Christian, the same type of extremism would exist just with a different holy scripture being used. You are a christian yourself so your opinion is biased of course, compared to an Atheist such as myself who views religions one in the same (especially Christianity, Judaism and Islam, which could not exist without each other).

LOL, I am not a Christian, I'm an atheist. Second, Christianity already had it's turn ruling, and it was horrible. At the same time it was reformed because of it's core beliefs that aren't anywhere as strict as Islam. The penalty for leaving Christianity is and has never been death. The penalty for being gay in Christianity isn't death. The penalty for adultery isn't death. We cannot ignore those teachings and continue to falsely say that all religions are the same.

"Christianity has gotten less and less radical". Where are you referring to? In the US, a 1st world country? In other European "Christian" countries? No crap. The conditions dictate that. What about in Africa, where Christian extremism is horrifyingly brutal? It's convenient to leave those countries out isn't it?

What about when Christianity was reformed? What about when the church was taken out of political power and we decided to go to a democratic way or govt? That didn't happen last year, 20 years ago, it happened hundreds of years ago.

Islam has yet to go through that change. It's core beliefs are a major reason why and you want to lump all religions as the same. Sorry, but as an atheist, as a liberal I cannot stand here and regurgitate this PC bull****.

That Christians would do the same, or that Christianity is the same as Islam. NO IT'S NOT, not even close. Beliefs matter, what Mohamed did mattered.

I have used this example before. Why aren't Palestinian Christians blowing themselves up in Israel? They are suffering the same oppression, the same occupation, so why not the suicide bombings? Theology is why, it makes a difference, a big fukin difference.

[D-MiZe]

Noble Verse 5:32 "...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people..."

Noble Verse 8:61 "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

Let there be no compulsion (forcing others) in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)



I can't believe I'm actually somewhat defending Islam here, Piggy would be so proud.