Ralph Jones vs Sugar Ray Robinson

[Southpaw16BF]

Here he says that Artie Levine hit him the hardest.

Robinson is often said to have "killed" Jimmy Doyle in the ring with a left hook but it was Levine who caused a serious brain injury to Jimmy Doyle yet Doyle decided to keep on fighting.

Well the book ''Pound for Pound'' claimed he said the Rock hit him the hardest. And also Sugar look's old here and in the book they said in the very early stages of his Alzheimer's disease they still would let him do public appreances.So maybe he memory a little bit forget full, but who knows. Graziano also knocked Robinson down.

[TheGreatA]

Well the book ''Pound for Pound'' claimed he said the Rock hit him the hardest. And also Sugar look's old here and in the book they said in the very early stages of his Alzheimer's disease they still would let him do public appreances.So maybe he memory a little bit forget full, but who knows. Graziano also knocked Robinson down.

It wasn't a big knockdown though because the punch didn't land very cleanly. Against Artie Levine however he was almost out but got back up.

Jake LaMotta also knocked him down heavily but Robinson said that despite being bigger and stronger than he was, LaMotta was not much of a puncher.

I wouldn't be surprised if he said Graziano was the hardest hitter he ever faced, that would probably be true.

[Miburo]

Robinson never had great defense, although this is much more apparent during his comeback run. He definitely relied on his chin to get off his offense.

[!! Shawn]

He looked terrible in that fight and also against Rocky Castellani and Lombardo which is why he was a 3-to-1 underdog against Carl 'Bobo' Olson even though he had beaten Olson twice before (although the second fight had been tough for him).

Here's an interesting article from 1955 before the third Olson fight:
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...0541/index.htm




Robinson - Olson III

Now I wouldn't say Robinson was ever a great defensive boxer, but from the films I've seen of him in his prime/near his prime, he was adept at picking off and slipping punches. With his movement he was rarely in a position to be hit.

I would compare him to Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes in that regard, his chin and recovering abilities kept him competitive into his late 30's even when he had diminished physically.

You are giving him way to much credit. Every film of Robinson I have ever seen his defense has been abysmal. He never had the Ali/Roy Jones ability to avoid punches miraculously, he just at them.

He was good with turning with the punches a little bit to take the steam off of them, but his defense was never good. He was never that great at picking off shots, he was never that great at being in positions to hit and not get hit. His main defense was his phenomenal offense. Get in throw his punches and glide back outside. If you threw, you were more than likely going to hit him.

When he traded jabs he had a nasty habit of blocking them with his face, another trait he shares in common with Mosley.

His best asset was his ability to punch on the move. If you tried to run once he started his flurry, he could chase you down with punches without falling off balance.

[TheGreatA]

You are giving him way to much credit. Every film of Robinson I have ever seen his defense has been abysmal. He never had the Ali/Roy Jones ability to avoid punches miraculously, he just at them.

He was good with turning with the punches a little bit to take the steam off of them, but his defense was never good. He was never that great at picking off shots, he was never that great at being in positions to hit and not get hit. His main defense was his phenomenal offense. Get in throw his punches and glide back outside. If you threw, you were more than likely going to hit him.

When he traded jabs he had a nasty habit of blocking them with his face, another trait he shares in common with Mosley.

His best asset was his ability to punch on the move. If you tried to run once he started his flurry, he could chase you down with punches without falling off balance.

I didn't say he was ever a great defensive fighter but from the films I've seen of him closest to his prime (1950 and earlier), he had better timing than he did later in his career.

During his comeback and even in 1951-1952 you could see that he was trying to pick the punches off and use body movement to avoid them but his timing was completely off.

[KostyaTszyu44]

ray was never a defensive whiz but he was good at rolling with shots and in his prime he was pretty good at slipping and parrying too

but yeah as his reflexes declined he relied more on his chin

[mcentepede]

Ray Robinson was never knocked out in over 200 fights, unless you want to count heat de-hydration. Also I dis-agree with you guys who say he had no defense, that he was no Pep or Whitaker. Those guys... like, Nico Roche were defensive masters with mimimal punching power, so what is your point. Robinson had almost 120 knock-outs, So I would rather see Ray knock-out 10 guys than Pep winning 100 decisions. Whittaker was a bit more exciting to watch for a defensive guy, and Rocche looked good on film because he just slipped with his head movements. Robinson was the boss in that or any era. He had few if any weaknesses for a fighter. His one flaw I could see is that he stuck around an extra 5 years past his prime and packed on some losses, even then, he was never stopped by these younger guns. Impressive.

[JJumpUp]

Ray Robinson was never knocked out in over 200 fights, unless you want to count heat de-hydration. Also I dis-agree with you guys who say he had no defense, that he was no Pep or Whitaker. Those guys... like, Nico Roche were defensive masters with mimimal punching power, so what is your point. Robinson had almost 120 knock-outs, So I would rather see Ray knock-out 10 guys than Pep winning 100 decisions. Whittaker was a bit more exciting to watch for a defensive guy, and Rocche looked good on film because he just slipped with his head movements. Robinson was the boss in that or any era. He had few if any weaknesses for a fighter. His one flaw I could see is that he stuck around an extra 5 years past his prime and packed on some losses, even then, he was never stopped by these younger guns. Impressive.

Good post. Pep, Pea and Locche seldom committed fully to their punches, they were primarily defensive fighters, whereas Robinson committed to most of his punches. The more you commit, the more you get hit. If the main thing on his mind had been evasiveness he could have been evasive without being hit much. He lived in an era when he knew he could not leave the decision up to corrupt judges too often. His fights were exciting because he wanted them to be. He also wanted to be popular and make big money. Some people whine he avoided Charley Burley. He did not want to fight a guy who had once had a fight stopped by the referee and sent to the showers for lack of any punches being thrown.