How much more Mayweather needs to do to be serious candidate for GOAT?

[McGoorty]

Stopped reading, that last line is just brilliant McGoorty, nothing Greb could do that Ray couldn't and that 1 playful spar that you've seen of him is proof of that ?. Don't see Ray beating Tunney by the way.

As for 'all' you tried to point out is that a Complete fighter has it all, I'm not arguing that at all. You said in the post that started this that Greb is in no way comparable to Ray Robinson when he very clearly is, don't try to twist what we were talking about.

Mate, Ray was a WW, Harry was a true blue MW, and because of that maybe Harry even wins that fight, but I said that harry wasnt a KO artist, and I am right about that, are you saying that Ray wasnt ?............ he knocked guys out even while on the back foot. Harry was a brawler, hardly think Robbo was. As for the footage, I dont take it seriously, but in no way does Greb display any science at all,, maybe he is just clowning, and I suspect he is, after all, how old was Philadelphia Jack ?........ anyway I dont want it to become an argument. I like both of them anyway,, I rate SRR as the GOAT.

[Scott9945]

sorry there was still a lot more money at 147 than at 154, so that goes out of the window.

Only facts are Cotto never made 47 again, Pea while made 47 for the rest of is career. Cotto had not made 140 in 3 years. Pea made 140 one year before and 135 two years before. You can try to make up stories but these are simple facts about the size of their bodies and their abilities to make weight and how making 145 could have affected them.

I do not get why you comparing pea and pac? pea is here compared to cotto because you suggested that the catchweights of 145 in Pea-JC and Cotto-Pac were comparable.

Bottom line, Cotto only weighed one less pound than his previous fight just months before. And I'm not making that up. Cotto would have had the same result at 147.

[wmute]

Bottom line, Cotto only weighed one less pound than his previous fight just months before. And I'm not making that up. Cotto would have had the same result at 147.

Bottom line, Pac asked for the catchweight and Cotto never got close to that weight again. And the previous fight was against Clottey, not Pacquiao. I would like to think that you see Cotto could afford more handicaps against Clottey than against Pac.

In any case, as I wrote a few posts ago: you want to be ridiculous and compare JC-Pea's catchweight to those Pac asked for? Fine with me, then just take JC off that list and you are still left with the fact that Pac asks for catchweights whereas PBF, Pea and RJ never did.

[F l i c k e r]

that he has yet to face a legit HALL OF FAMER in their prime.

who should he have fought then?

[Scott9945]

Bottom line, Pac asked for the catchweight and Cotto never got close to that weight again. And the previous fight was against Clottey, not Pacquiao. I would like to think that you see Cotto could afford more handicaps against Clottey than against Pac.

In any case, as I wrote a few posts ago: you want to be ridiculous and compare JC-Pea's catchweight to those Pac asked for? Fine with me, then just take JC off that list and you are still left with the fact that Pac asks for catchweights whereas PBF, Pea and RJ never did.

We obviously disagree with the effect that Pacquaio's catchweights had on his opponents performance, so there is no need to continue this debate.

And for the record, I'm opposed to catchweights in any title fight.

[wmute]

We obviously disagree with the effect that Pacquaio's catchweights had on his opponents performance, so there is no need to continue this debate.

And for the record, I'm opposed to catchweights in any title fight.

Me too, that is why I cannot rate Pac on the same level as fighters who do not demand them.

[The Tase]

Me too, that is why I cannot rate Pac on the same level as fighters who do not demand them.

so you dont rate ray leonard, floyd mayweather jr., julio cesar chavez jr., & bernard hopkins then?

[wmute]

so you dont rate ray leonard, floyd mayweather jr., julio cesar chavez jr., & bernard hopkins then?

Read previous posts in this thread, you will understand. maybe.

[JK1700]

I know i'm late with this, but I recently saw a video that made me think about it and I thought it was worth giving my thoughts. First of all, Floyd is the best boxer I have ever seen. In my opinion he's better than and should be ranked above Manny Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Pernell Whitaker, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler and Sugar Ray Leonard. I have watched all of those guys when they were at their peak in what have been described as their greatest victories and I don't think any of them were ever as good as Mayweather (That doesn't mean some of them weren't close). I can't tell you whether he's the GOAT yet because there are guys who have an argument for that who I am not yet educated on, like Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson. However it is hard for me to imagine a better boxer than Floyd when it comes to attributes, skills and just the overall package of everything that he has. He's boxing perfection and all of his attributes are 10 out of 10, except for his power maybe, but that is still an 8 or a 9. He also has a whole host of ring traits that most boxers don't have. He can let his opponent fight their kind of fight and still dominate them while never being in any danger of losing (The Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto fights show this). He fought them both toe-to-toe and still dominated.

As for what he can do to be considered the G.O.A.T., I think there is too much hate for his persona (which people just don't seem to be able to realise is fake), too much resentment of how much money he has made and continues to make, and too much racism in the world for him to ever be universally considered the greatest of all time. Another thing is that he's undefeated and I think that undefeated fighters, especially those who dominate like he does, don't get the credit they deserve because people just assume that they haven't tested themselves, because they haven't taken much punishment, regardless of how many top level opponents they have beaten. Floyd could have 10 more fights against top competition and retire undefeated and people would still say "He didn't fight this guy, He didn't fight that guy, so his legacy is tainted". This is what's going to happen with Pacquiao. Even though Floyd has tried to make the fight happen several times and completely dominated a guy who most people think beat Pacquiao in at least 2 if not in all of their 3 fights. Anyway - Here's my theory on what he could do. It's highly unlikely but here goes...

Let's say he faces Canelo in December of this year and dominates him, and Canelo continues to be a force in the division for many years to come. Then in December Miguel Cotto faces Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam for the WBO Middleweight title which is likely about to be stripped from Dmitry Pirog (N'Jikam is the interim champion and will be upgraded to full champion). Let's say that Cotto beats him in impressive fashion and then Floyd rematches Cotto at 160 in May 2013 and completely dominates and stops him to win the Middleweight title. Then later that year he faces Sergio Martinez assuming that Martinez beats Chavez Jr and dominates him also at 160. Then in May 2014 he faces the Dmitry Pirog/Genndady Golovkin winner and dominates that fight, and then takes on the Felix Sturm/Daniel Geale winner and dominates that fight also becoming the Undisputed Middleweight Champion of the world having defeated every single titlist in the division. A division that is two divisions higher than his natural division against much bigger opponents (with the exception of Cotto) in his mid to late 30's. If he did that, he would have won 12 world titles in 6 different divisions having defeated 22 world champions (two of them twice) and around 30 world class opponents overall having only had two legitmately close fights (against Castillo) during that time. That would be absolutley magnificent and if he did it then I think it would be very hard for anyone to claim that he doesn't at least belong in the Top 5 and have a legitimate argument for being #1. I think he should be in the G.O.A.T. debate now.

It would be an absolutley brilliant feat if he did that. I know it's highly unlikely and probably won't happen but I wanted to share the idea.

[kendom]

I know i'm late with this, but I recently saw a video that made me think about it and I thought it was worth giving my thoughts. First of all, Floyd is the best boxer I have ever seen. In my opinion he's better than and should be ranked above Manny Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Pernell Whitaker, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler and Sugar Ray Leonard. I have watched all of those guys when they were at their peak in what have been described as their greatest victories and I don't think any of them were ever as good as Mayweather (That doesn't mean some of them weren't close). I can't tell you whether he's the GOAT yet because there are guys who have an argument for that who I am not yet educated on, like Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson. However it is hard for me to imagine a better boxer than Floyd when it comes to attributes, skills and just the overall package of everything that he has. He's boxing perfection and all of his attributes are 10 out of 10, except for his power maybe, but that is still an 8 or a 9. He also has a whole host of ring traits that most boxers don't have. He can let his opponent fight their kind of fight and still dominate them while never being in any danger of losing (The Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto fights show this). He fought them both toe-to-toe and still dominated.

As for what he can do to be considered the G.O.A.T., I think there is too much hate for his persona (which people just don't seem to be able to realise is fake), too much resentment of how much money he has made and continues to make, and too much racism in the world for him to ever be universally considered the greatest of all time. Another thing is that he's undefeated and I think that undefeated fighters, especially those who dominate like he does, don't get the credit they deserve because people just assume that they haven't tested themselves, because they haven't taken much punishment, regardless of how many top level opponents they have beaten. Floyd could have 10 more fights against top competition and retire undefeated and people would still say "He didn't fight this guy, He didn't fight that guy, so his legacy is tainted". This is what's going to happen with Pacquiao. Even though Floyd has tried to make the fight happen several times and completely dominated a guy who most people think beat Pacquiao in at least 2 if not in all of their 3 fights. Anyway - Here's my theory on what he could do. It's highly unlikely but here goes...

Let's say he faces Canelo in December of this year and dominates him, and Canelo continues to be a force in the division for many years to come. Then in December Miguel Cotto faces Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam for the WBO Middleweight title which is likely about to be stripped from Dmitry Pirog (N'Jikam is the interim champion and will be upgraded to full champion). Let's say that Cotto beats him in impressive fashion and then Floyd rematches Cotto at 160 in May 2013 and completely dominates and stops him to win the Middleweight title. Then later that year he faces Sergio Martinez assuming that Martinez beats Chavez Jr and dominates him also at 160. Then in May 2014 he faces the Dmitry Pirog/Genndady Golovkin winner and dominates that fight, and then takes on the Felix Sturm/Daniel Geale winner and dominates that fight also becoming the Undisputed Middleweight Champion of the world having defeated every single titlist in the division. A division that is two divisions higher than his natural division against much bigger opponents (with the exception of Cotto) in his mid to late 30's. If he did that, he would have won 12 world titles in 6 different divisions having defeated 22 world champions (two of them twice) and around 30 world class opponents overall having only had two legitmately close fights (against Castillo) during that time. That would be absolutley magnificent and if he did it then I think it would be very hard for anyone to claim that he doesn't at least belong in the Top 5 and have a legitimate argument for being #1. I think he should be in the G.O.A.T. debate now.

It would be an absolutley brilliant feat if he did that. I know it's highly unlikely and probably won't happen but I wanted to share the idea.

You really think Floyd should be ranked above Hearns, Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard??? on what basis?