Was Rocky Marciano an ATG?

[Philantro]

Some people used to make a big deal out of Rocky winning 49 fights, with no losses, but to be an ATG you need to win over top competition and Rocky never did that. He fought many "big names"; Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, etc.; but they were way past their prime when Rocky fought them.

So my answer is: No, because he only fought "bums". A 49-0 record means nothing if the "big names" you face are not in their prime anymore.

People who consider Rocky Marciano as top 50 ATG know nothing about boxing.

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[Jc8804]

He is undefeated.

49 tried. 49 Failed. No YouTube. No TUE
No iv's and no xylocaine.

[Bram]

I always put Marciano on the level of Tyson. They both competed in really down eras of a division which was just after and just before the presence of great competition. So we look at Tyson for beating old Larry Holmes and blown up Michael Spinks and Marciano for beating Louis, Charles, Walcott and Moore, like you said. And they get a primary credit for things that other greats don't because we need something - Tyson for his spectacular ko's and Marciano for his record, but I do rank Marciano ahead of Tyson because at least he never found a way to lose to one of those guys.

I do think Rocky is an ATG. In his prime (and passed it) he beat the best available competition and he was, clearly, the best of his division for a few years. You wish he would've showed up earlier or later, but he did great for where he was and he couldn't help when he was born. However, I will say that if I made a list of the top 50 fighters ever, Marciano is definitely in there somewhere. If I made a list of the top 10, he definitely is not.

[M Bison]

He is undefeated.

49 tried. 49 Failed. No YouTube. No TUE
No iv's and no xylocaine.

He fought entertaining as well, always went toe-to-toe and he did this in a time when boxing was very tough people paid to see fighters not fairies.

[Jc8804]

Op you can say Floyd beat a lot of has been as well. Past prime guys and some bums like berto ghost Ortiz and baldomir and zab and Mitchell and brussles

[IronDanHamza]

No.

ATG Heavyweight perhaps, not in general.

[boliodogs]

Hell yes he was an all time great. If you don't think so you are about the only one on the planet who doesn't think so. You want a big win over top competition then try these wins on for size. Marciano twice defeated the great Ezzard Charles. Ezzard Charles was not only the former world heavyweight champion but he is generally considered the best light heavyweight in history. Here is what make these two Marciano wins so special. Charles out weighed Marciano in both fights. Marciano was a tiny heavyweight who was about 5 foot ten inches tall and weighed in at between 180 and 187 for his title fights in street clothes on the morning of the fight. Marciano was really a light heavyweight who was so good he ruled the heavyweights. He was always out weighed by his opponents in all his fights. Truth be told Marciano was not only a great heavyweight but the best light heavyweight in history even though he never officially fought as a light heavyweight. He also has KO wins over Archie Moore, Joe Louis, and Joe Walcott twice.

[Philantro]

I always put Marciano on the level of Tyson. They both competed in really down eras of a division which was just after and just before the presence of great competition. So we look at Tyson for beating old Larry Holmes and blown up Michael Spinks and Marciano for beating Louis, Charles, Walcott and Moore, like you said. And they get a primary credit for things that other greats don't because we need something - Tyson for his spectacular ko's and Marciano for his record, but I do rank Marciano ahead of Tyson because at least he never found a way to lose to one of those guys.

I have never understood why some people blow up the importance of a few losses. Tyson was obviously not himself after losing his four best prime years in prison. Luckily he showed us four years of his prime years before he went to jail. There was nothing left in him after these 8 years, his fans watched him only out of nostalgia then.

Marciano didn't lose, but so what? He didn't fight any high level competition, because all the "big names" he fought were washed up, except maybe Archie Moore whose career never ended, but he was 7 years older than Rocky.

Tyson also fought in a down era of the division, as you stated, but the way he won was spectacular. The way George Foreman won was also rather spectacular and that is mainly why he is ranked so high.

What was so spectacular with Rocky Marciano?

I do think Rocky is an ATG. In his prime (and passed it) he beat the best available competition and he was, clearly, the best of his division for a few years. You wish he would've showed up earlier or later, but he did great for where he was and he couldn't help when he was born. However, I will say that if I made a list of the top 50 fighters ever, Marciano is definitely in there somewhere. If I made a list of the top 10, he definitely is not.

I don't rank him as ATG since there are more than 100 other fighters who were much, much better and who faced much, much better competition. If you put Marciano in your top 50, you take a place from a fighter who was much, much worthier this place, in my opinion.

I have never understood the glory of an undefeated record. For me this means nothing. Like when I didn't care if my new girlfriend was virgin or not.

What is much more important for me is if the fighter has shown courage or not. An undefeated record is a strong indication that the fighter doesn't like challenges. This is definitely not a positive.


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[RED REP]

He is undefeated.

49 tried. 49 Failed. No YouTube. No TUE
No iv's and no xylocaine.

Emotional post spotted!

[Philantro]

Hell yes he was an all time great. If you don't think so you are about the only one on the planet who doesn't think so. You want a big win over top competition then try these wins on for size. Marciano twice defeated the great Ezzard Charles. Ezzard Charles was not only the former world heavyweight champion but he is generally considered the best light heavyweight in history. Here is what make these two Marciano wins so special. Charles out weighed Marciano in both fights. Marciano was a tiny heavyweight who was about 5 foot ten inches tall and weighed in at between 180 and 187 for his title fights in street clothes on the morning of the fight. Marciano was really a light heavyweight who was so good he ruled the heavyweights. He was always out weighed by his opponents in all his fights. Truth be told Marciano was not only a great heavyweight but the best light heavyweight in history even though he never officially fought as a light heavyweight. He also has KO wins over Archie Moore, Joe Louis, and Joe Walcott twice.

Ezzard Charles had lost to both Harold Johnson and Nino Valdes, and was way out of his prime when he fought Marciano. Ezzard was slightly lighter than Marciano in their first fight and slightly heavier in their second.

Archie Moore was 7 years older and slightly lighter than Marciano.

Joe Walcott was 9 years older than Marciano and well past his prime.

Joe Louis was forced to fight in a comeback out of financial problems. Sad, sad. This fight counts for nothing.

Do you really mean light heavyweight?



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