James Toney, gifted or a student? As well as other boxers

[Locche]

Locche is probably one of the most freakishly gifted athletes I've seen, chain smoked like a ****in boss and didn't put too much effort into his training yet still went 15 rounds easy, same with Monzon, must be something in that Argentinean water

But are you sure that wasn't just down to his economical style, a bit like Toney?

If what you're saying is the case then I have even more respect for him. I thought he was doing all that stuff DESPITE not being much of an athlete.

The other one in that vein I guess is Ricardo Mayorga - smokes like a chimney and still continues to come forward in the 12th....

[Anthony342]

I recently read that Toney is a throw back fighter. The things he learned just aren't taught anymore.

Why not???

[SCtrojansbaby]

Toney is one of the most naturally gifted boxers ever. A++++++++ reflexes he also has one of the greatest chins ever. He's obviously also a student of the game

[{Pito}]

Why not???

The reason I believe is because everybody is so focused on making the perfect textbook fighter that no one enhances the natural style a fighter may have anymore. Coaches try to mold a fighter into something THEY want but not help build on the natural style a person may bring and just enhance and or tweak what they're good and bad at anymore.

Everybody is trained in a cookie cutter mold now so all the old techniques are now considered primitive and not "up to date". That's what I believe anyhow

[greynotsoold]

The reason I believe is because everybody is so focused on making the perfect textbook fighter that no one enhances the natural style a fighter may have anymore. Coaches try to mold a fighter into something THEY want but not help build on the natural style a person may bring and just enhance and or tweak what they're good and bad at anymore.

Everybody is trained in a cookie cutter mold now so all the old techniques are now considered primitive and not "up to date". That's what I believe anyhow

I think that the opposite may be true, at least from what I have seen. I think that there are a lot of guys teaching boxing that don't know much about boxing, and then you factor in that instilling the basics is often boring and repetative ....so they let a guy do things his own way because he's a "natural". And really it is just an excuse not to teach something you don't know in the first place.
Not very many people are "naturally" gifted when it comes to boxing. It is a learned behavior and requires a good teacher. (Before you say it...RJJ was a natural, a natural with a father that started teaching him as soon as he could walk. Like Shane Mosley.)

[billeau2]

I think that the opposite may be true, at least from what I have seen. I think that there are a lot of guys teaching boxing that don't know much about boxing, and then you factor in that instilling the basics is often boring and repetative ....so they let a guy do things his own way because he's a "natural". And really it is just an excuse not to teach something you don't know in the first place.
Not very many people are "naturally" gifted when it comes to boxing. It is a learned behavior and requires a good teacher. (Before you say it...RJJ was a natural, a natural with a father that started teaching him as soon as he could walk. Like Shane Mosley.)

Agreed.

Combat is an interesting enterprise. It takes a lot of skill sets, and it is easy to learn bad habits. In the martial arts this is a real problem. But in boxing the guys with a repository of knowledge are slowly slipping away

[cameronpaul]

if i were teaching boxing, it would be half like a martial arts lession with lots of positional ideas and variety of counters and set ups, then sparring. i dont like going boxing classes that are 90% cardio 10% boxing. i can do press ups in my own time.

[Anthony342]

Agreed.

Combat is an interesting enterprise. It takes a lot of skill sets, and it is easy to learn bad habits. In the martial arts this is a real problem. But in boxing the guys with a repository of knowledge are slowly slipping away

Okay, so why aren't those guys passing their knowledge onto someone younger to continue their teachings? I mean, boxers like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins are proof that those old techniques can be effective in today's boxing, especially seeing how long Hopkins has been able to last. So, I guess our best bet would be if Hopkins and maybe Toney become trainers themselves. I heard Pernell Whitaker is a trainer now, I've seen him in interviews leading up to Zab Judah fights. So it seems either fighters like that should become trainers or pass on what they've learned for someone else to teach the next generation.

[NChristo]

But are you sure that wasn't just down to his economical style, a bit like Toney?

If what you're saying is the case then I have even more respect for him. I thought he was doing all that stuff DESPITE not being much of an athlete.

The other one in that vein I guess is Ricardo Mayorga - smokes like a chimney and still continues to come forward in the 12th....

Economic style or not, you have too have great stamina too go 15 rounds especially with the opponents that Toney and Locche were matched with, a lot of monstrous boxers who you couldn't take any breaks against and are going to force you to your limit, guys like Carlos Ortiz, McCallum, Cervantes, etc, people you 'should' be in the shape of your life for, not Toney (Although in pretty damn good shape for the McCallum fight, point still stands) or Locche though, some sparring and burger king for Toney and some Ciggaretes and a little run for Locche and they're more then prepared to go the distance, along with the hard work they've put in too studying boxing they had to be born with something, both freakish talents.