Mike Tyson vs Evander Holyfield I

[Daddy T]

All you need to do is watch both fighters in their prime to be aware of who would have won prime v prime. Watch say tyson v holmes/thomas and compare it to Holy v the same.

Tyson's greatest weapon as said by himself was his elusiveness, once he gave rooney the boot he lost that and was never the same fighter. Prime tyson with Rooney in his corner would defeat Holy in an all time classic fight. Tyson lost his desire and love of the sport after Spinks and that was perhaps the biggest difference. Post spinks tyson flattered to decieve because even without the desire he could still blow most people away. When tyson finally met Holy, one fighter still had the love of the sport, the desire to go through hell to win, the other did not.

[fight_professor]

I love Tyson. He had a great chin, but not a great heart. He could be broken psychologically.

[Hands of Iron]

I dont know that Rooney left so much as he found out through the newspaper that he'd been relieved of his duties. Was Tyson so owned by Don King that he didnt have the right to choose his own trainer or the guts to tell Rooney to his face? Was he so arrogant to believe he could all but train himself? What really bothers me is that he wont even admit today that he was at his best under Rooney's guidance and instruction.

Unfortunately, the desire to go through hell against adversity can be a defining or damning trait when assessing greatness amongst the elite. When they met, neither were at their personal best although both were near the top of the division at the time. There just isnt any way the fight didnt carry relevance. Had Tyson won either of those fights, it would be the first one mentioned as best on his resume just like 37-year-old Holyfield is Lewis' best achievement. I dont even know for certain that the opposite is true for Holyfield: '93 Riddick Bowe - at 25 and undefeated champ having proven his ability against peak Evander - was a massively impressive win for Holyfield. Tyson never defeated such a fighter. It wasn't on par with Frazier's winning the FOTC, Foreman's thrashing of undefeated Frazier (however 'out of shape') or Ali's triumph in Zaire, but it wasnt too far off. I'd put Foreman (even at 1991) on par or better with anybody Tyson beat pre-prison. That's a name Tyson wasnt too keen on putting on his own record although he had little problem disposing of Holmes in four. Being the only man to defeat Michael Spinks is impressive and helps him in that Spinks called it a career for good.

[Hands of Iron]

What does help Tyson is that he was able to cram a lot of fights into a relatively short period of time, had a good title reign in terms of defenses, faced most of the top contenders of his time and did it in a very dominant fashion. Even post-Douglas, the wins over Ruddock are a big boost considering how he was rated and regarded at the time. He beat the prime out of him ala Chavez-Taylor. And won far more convincing to boot.

A 41-1 (36) record w/ his title reign makes a career in itself.

[Mintcar923]

I dont know that Rooney left so much as he found out through the newspaper that he'd been relieved of his duties. Was Tyson so owned by Don King that he didnt have the right to choose his own trainer or the guts to tell Rooney to his face? Was he so arrogant to believe he could all but train himself? What really bothers me is that he wont even admit today that he was at his best under Rooney's guidance and instruction.

Unfortunately, the desire to go through hell against adversity can be a defining or damning trait when assessing greatness amongst the elite. When they met, neither were at their personal best although both were near the top of the division at the time. There just isnt any way the fight didnt carry relevance. Had Tyson won either of those fights, it would be the first one mentioned as best on his resume just like 37-year-old Holyfield is Lewis' best achievement. I dont even know for certain that the opposite is true for Holyfield: '93 Riddick Bowe - at 25 and undefeated champ having proven his ability against peak Evander - was a massively impressive win for Holyfield. Tyson never defeated such a fighter. It wasn't on par with Frazier's winning the FOTC, Foreman's thrashing of undefeated Frazier (however 'out of shape') or Ali's triumph in Zaire, but it wasnt too far off. I'd put Foreman (even at 1991) on par or better with anybody Tyson beat pre-prison. That's a name Tyson wasnt too keen on putting on his own record although he had little problem disposing of Holmes in four. Being the only man to defeat Michael Spinks is impressive and helps him in that Spinks called it a career for good.

Thats one thing about Mike that I'll never understand. It certainly appears to us fans that he was soo much better under the guidance of the Rooney/Lott team. But, there could have been other factors he is not letting us in on. Funny, Spinks was a great fighter. I'm sure he wanted no part of Tyson after their 91 seconds of combat. However, he had defeated every other fighter he'd met. I think he may've even out-pointed Holy had they fought. Damn, Spinks shoud have come back when Mike was in prison. Perhaps, he would've been back on top. Then, the topic of this post would be the results of Tyson-Spinks II back on Nov. 9, 1996...LOL!!

[Hands of Iron]

Spinks had no great love of fighting. He seemed content having beat Holmes the first go-round (stunning accomplishment), and got something of a gift in the rematch. Had no qualms of relinquishing the IBF strap instead of facing mandatory Tony Tucker for a bigger payday against Gerry Cooney. Then it was onto making 'Once And For All' when Tyson had collected all the belts. He's recognized as the Champion for both 1986-1987 although nobody genuinely takes that seriously. However, there were plenty of people within the sport who gave him more than a chance heading into the Tyson fought: some thought he'd win outright.

[Hands of Iron]

Holyfield was well past his prime in 96. People considered him to be "on the way out" and done at the top level.

Tyson, also past his prime, but was considered to be much closer than Holyfield. He was so strong and powerful at that point. Not as technically sound or fast or agile but he was a beast and would have probably beaten most Heavyweight's at that time.

Both showed heart and great chins in that fight. Holyfield was just the better man on the night.

Despite Holyfield beating him convincingly, I would still have LOVED to have seen them fight in 91. Man, that would have been so awesome.

I still lean on Holyfield then too.

Indeed. It had all the makings of another blowout.

Shelly Finkel, who quit as Holyfield's manager when Holyfield refused to hang up the gloves after losing his title to Michael Moorer in 1994, said last week that there were only two types of fighters who could beat Tyson: big punchers and big men. Holyfield is neither. "But he has a great ability to rationalize," Finkel said. "I believe he believes he will find a way in the ring."

Moorer's trainer, Teddy Atlas, who helped train Tyson during Tyson's amateur days, said three days before Saturday's bout that Holyfield rationalizes too much and too often. Referring to Holyfield's contention that "a tiny hole" in his heart, diagnosed by doctors after the Moorer fight (a diagnosis later reversed by doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., and the Emory Clinic in Atlanta), was cured by televangelist Benny Hinn, Atlas said, "No offense to anyone's beliefs, but that does say something about the guy's ability to deal with reality."

Atlas was also concerned about Holyfield's mileage. His three fights with Riddick Bowe were wars and might have taken their toll. "I hate to say this," Atlas continued, "but he looked almost talentless in his last fight, against Bobby Czyz [last May]. I have a lot of wonderment about what I didn't see in that fight." The Nevada commission wondered enough to run Holyfield through the Mayo Clinic but, as reluctant as it was to permit this bout, had to go along with the clinic's findings, which showed Holyfield to be in good health.

[TBear]

Surely didn't hurt Holyfield to spend countless hours sparring with David Tua in preparation for the fight.

[Miburo]

I'd pick Holyfield in '91 as well, Tyson had already strayed.

[Barn]

Surely didn't hurt Holyfield to spend countless hours sparring with David Tua in preparation for the fight.

In a literal sense it probably did.