Grading Dempsey's reign

[JAB5239]

Just based on his championship reign, what kind of grade would you give for the fighters he fought?

[JAB5239]

Lets look at who he fought.

Willard-In many people eyes the worst of the heavyweight champions

Billy Miske-Had one win over a top heavyweight (Bill Brennen) and was 3-2-3 in his last 8 fights and had Brights disease which would kill him less than 4 years later. Had Lost to Greb.

Bill Brennen-Hadn't beaten a top fighter in some time and had lost to Greb.

Georges Carpentier-Light heavyweight champion who ducked Greb and hadn't beaten a top heavyweight in years.

Jimmy Darcy-Dempsey's sparring partner who had a career 52-72-42 (16) record.

Tommy Gibbons-Excellent light heavy who had already lost to Greb.

Luis Firpo-Tough, but crude and unskilled.

Gene Tunney-One of the greatest light heavies ever.

8 title fights in 7 years. Blatently ducked both Harry Greb and Harry Wills. Dempsey was a ferocious whirlwind and an icon, but if we judge him on by what we see here how high a grade does he really deserve?

[dannyl12345]

Lets look at who he fought.

Willard-In many people eyes the worst of the heavyweight champions

Billy Miske-Had one win over a top heavyweight (Bill Brennen) and was 3-2-3 in his last 8 fights and had Brights disease which would kill him less than 4 years later. Had Lost to Greb.

Bill Brennen-Hadn't beaten a top fighter in some time and had lost to Greb.

Georges Carpentier-Light heavyweight champion who ducked Greb and hadn't beaten a top heavyweight in years.

Jimmy Darcy-Dempsey's sparring partner who had a career 52-72-42 (16) record.

Tommy Gibbons-Excellent light heavy who had already lost to Greb.

Luis Firpo-Tough, but crude and unskilled.

Gene Tunney-One of the greatest light heavies ever.

8 title fights in 7 years. Blatently ducked both Harry Greb and Harry Wills. Dempsey was a ferocious whirlwind and an icon, but if we judge him on by what we see here how high a grade does he really deserve?

Exactly right.

[joseph5620]

Lets look at who he fought.

Willard-In many people eyes the worst of the heavyweight champions

Billy Miske-Had one win over a top heavyweight (Bill Brennen) and was 3-2-3 in his last 8 fights and had Brights disease which would kill him less than 4 years later. Had Lost to Greb.

Bill Brennen-Hadn't beaten a top fighter in some time and had lost to Greb.

Georges Carpentier-Light heavyweight champion who ducked Greb and hadn't beaten a top heavyweight in years.

Jimmy Darcy-Dempsey's sparring partner who had a career 52-72-42 (16) record.

Tommy Gibbons-Excellent light heavy who had already lost to Greb.

Luis Firpo-Tough, but crude and unskilled.

Gene Tunney-One of the greatest light heavies ever.

8 title fights in 7 years. Blatently ducked both Harry Greb and Harry Wills. Dempsey was a ferocious whirlwind and an icon, but if we judge him on by what we see here how high a grade does he really deserve?

I think what you said speaks for itself. Dempsey not only ducked the best fighters of his era, but also lost to the best fighter he ever faced. I don't see any justification in grading his reign higher than a C.

[$Bullsfam$]

I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt because if he would have fought Tunney in this day and age that 2nd fight would have been a KO. His inactivity really did hurt him too, it didn't help him reach the maximum potential he could have reached with his title reign not to mention it cost him against Tunney the 1st time.

I'd give him a B but I'm really being generous. Probably should be a C+ at best.

[CarlosG815]

I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt because if he would have fought Tunney in this day and age that 2nd fight would have been a KO. His inactivity really did hurt him too, it didn't help him reach the maximum potential he could have reached with his title reign not to mention it cost him against Tunney the 1st time.

I'd give him a B but I'm really being generous. Probably should be a C+ at best.

Tunney was not hurt and had the ref started counting right away instead of sending Dempsey to his corner, he still would have gotten up. It would not have made a difference, Tunney was not dazed and he shot right up, legs fully functional and all.

[BigStereotype]

I'm interested in seeing the takes on this, there are so many angles you can go with. Personally, I'd give him an A- for his prime. He slaughtered some good fighters but he had some stinkers and avoided some cats in their primes, too. But this should be good.

[JAB5239]

I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt because if he would have fought Tunney in this day and age that 2nd fight would have been a KO. His inactivity really did hurt him too, it didn't help him reach the maximum potential he could have reached with his title reign not to mention it cost him against Tunney the 1st time.

I'd give him a B but I'm really being generous. Probably should be a C+ at best.

I have to respectfully disagree that he would have stopped Tunney in the 2nd fight. It was Dempsey himself who initiated the neutral corner rule after a knockdown for this fight. The rule today is the same as for that fight, the count cannot start until the other fighter heads to a neutral corner. We can't blame Tunney for taking his time getting up anymore than we could blame Buster Douglas for taking his time getting up against Tyson. A fighter goes only by the refs count.

[JAB5239]

I'm interested in seeing the takes on this, there are so many angles you can go with. Personally, I'd give him an A- for his prime. He slaughtered some good fighters but he had some stinkers and avoided some cats in their primes, too. But this should be good.

Dempsey was a great fighter, only a fool would argue otherwise. But as you said, he missed the two best fighters outside of Tunney, and his reign is weak and marred by inactivity. Unfortunately his drawing power (the greatest live draw ever) and his status as an icon over shadow this in my opinion.

I believe Jack Johnson's reign to be the same, yet I think his prime competion is better. Once this thread plays out I'll star another for Johnson and than others.

[JAB5239]

Tunney was not hurt and had the ref started counting right away instead of sending Dempsey to his corner, he still would have gotten up. It would not have made a difference, Tunney was not dazed and he shot right up, legs fully functional and all.

Carlos, how would you rate his championship reign and why? I know you're a big Dempsey fan and Im not trying to belittle him, but Im genuinely curious.