Would you say ali was "shot" when he fought norton?

[Sugarj]

Cool. When did they start calling him Leon Neon? Just wondering because there was a neon light do it yourself product for kids in the '80s that had the same name. Wonder if it was named after Spinks.

I'm pretty sure he was 'Neon Leon' before the 80s. I may be wrong but Richard Pryor may have referred to him as 'Neon Leon' in his 1979 stand up routine.

After winning the title, he went party mad. The name suited him perfectly! Ali of course called him 'Dracula' in reference to his teeth.

[Sugarj]

I remember reading Mr. T, who had been hired as a bodyguard for Leon, said that he was coked up even on the day of that fight. It was a pathetic performance by Spinks who looked like a shell of the same fighter who outworked Ali just 6 months before.

That I could believe! Leon's performance certainly wasn't anything like as good as previous. He did win a few rounds and obviously lasted the distance; he could of course have laid down.......

As for Mr T as a bodyguard. I once read that his business card said 'Man's best protection next to God'. I don't doubt it!!

Spinks did have potential and pedigree. He was rushed too quickly into title contention and met the perfect foe in an underprepared Ali.

[damuttz112]

Wasn't Leon Spinks smoking pot or high?

[Sugarj]

Wasn't Leon Spinks smoking pot or high?

Cocaine was his 'baby'. His first experience apparently came when after winning the title he was out partying wearing a hat.....and someone slipped a small amount into the fold. His curiosity got the better of him when he found it later on.......and he didn't look back after that!!!

[Prince_Pugilist]

I don't think Ali was shot for first two Norton fights, both extremely close and quite entertaining. By the time the third fight came round, Ali was shot or very very close to being shot. Yet that version of Ali was still the best heavyweight on the planet and could probably have beaten 90% of heavyweight champions throughout history.

Ali was shot by the time he fought Shavers and then Leon twice, yet Leon could only beat an undertrained Ali who took the Olympic kid lightly. Never has a fighter who was shot or close to shot faced elite level opposition and won. Excellent stuff!

[greynotsoold]

If you had a strong jab and were willing to toss it every time Ali jabbed, you'd give him hell. Louis would hammer him. That is why Norton gave him troubles and would have always given him troubles. See, when you get onto that "Ali is the greatest" bull****, you forget one thing: Ali was hysterically one dimensional. Get him off his toes, just surround his jab (and that ain't hard) and you'll make him fight. Then he isn't even a good heavyweight.
Now, with Leon...Neon or not, he always sucked and i"ll suggest that that fight was rigged. Let the novice win, let Ali get it back. Would the "shot" Archie Moore that fought Marciano have lost to Spinks?

[Sugarj]

If you had a strong jab and were willing to toss it every time Ali jabbed, you'd give him hell. Louis would hammer him. That is why Norton gave him troubles and would have always given him troubles. See, when you get onto that "Ali is the greatest" bull****, you forget one thing: Ali was hysterically one dimensional. Get him off his toes, just surround his jab (and that ain't hard) and you'll make him fight. Then he isn't even a good heavyweight.
Now, with Leon...Neon or not, he always sucked and i"ll suggest that that fight was rigged. Let the novice win, let Ali get it back. Would the "shot" Archie Moore that fought Marciano have lost to Spinks?

Short of your post being of the 'bait' variety. The problem is, most heavyweights who faced Ali were usually outreached and almost certainly outspeeded by his jab. Having a strong jab and being willing to 'toss' it whenever Ali threw his jab would be a foolish gameplan for most heavyweights in history against Ali. The key to beating Ali was superior workrate and educated pressure. Frazier got it right in 1971, but he still suffered.

I wouldn't have said that Norton's jab was key to his close battles with Ali, it factored but not as much rather his awkward crab like style, his excellent educated pressure, his superb conditioning and a good blend of power, accuracy and workrate. His body work was very good and his handspeed was far from embarrassing.

Norton was seriously good against any orthodox boxer, for as long as they didn't possess Foreman/Shavers like power. His battles with Ali, Young and Holmes surely prove that his style was very effective.

As for Ali being one dimensional. Granted, he never fought as a southpaw and he neglected the body. But he fought well on the move or flatfooted going forward and backwards, he could box when circling to the left and right (usually orthodox fighters traditionally circle to the left). He could fight well off the ropes. He could change a gameplan mid fight. Surely Ali was one of the less one dimensional heavyweights.

And Moore wasn't shot when he faced Marciano, he went off to have quite a few good years after in world class afterwards including the superb fights with Durelle three or four years later.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Ali wasn't shot until the Shavers fight, he wasn't even faded until after The Thrilla in Manila.

[wmute]

Legs gone after the ban.

hand/eye gone after Thrilla.

shot after Shavers (big heart he showed in that one...).