Protrade suggests that Hank Aaron and other oldtimers Juiced

[Gareth Ivanovic]

Hitting a baseball is related to skill, not athleticism. Juggling is hard too, but you don't see them juicing.

If they could make millions of dollars juggling and the juggling organization didn't have any rules against it, I bet they probably would. I just don't think juicing in baseball produces the same kind of benefits in other sports. Football and Basketball players could benefit big time. In baseball if you are already good then it will help you at in the HR department. There were players that did take steroids or whatever else and still weren't that great. I guess just being around baseball my whole life, I just think it's just much more a mental game than anything else.

[rj_ct]

If they could make millions of dollars juggling and the juggling organization didn't have any rules against it, I bet they probably would. I just don't think juicing in baseball produces the same kind of benefits in other sports. Football and Basketball players could benefit big time. In baseball if you are already good then it will help you at in the HR department. There were players that did take steroids or whatever else and still weren't that great. I guess just being around baseball my whole life, I just think it's just much more a mental game than anything else.

exactly. the juice might give you leg power, arm strength and bat speed, but it doesn't make the bat make contact with the ball or allow the pitcher to hit his spots. it's still cheating though. no matter how prevalent it was you know there were players who never did them and just worked their asses off.

[Mr. Ryan]

If they could make millions of dollars juggling and the juggling organization didn't have any rules against it, I bet they probably would. I just don't think juicing in baseball produces the same kind of benefits in other sports. Football and Basketball players could benefit big time. In baseball if you are already good then it will help you at in the HR department. There were players that did take steroids or whatever else and still weren't that great. I guess just being around baseball my whole life, I just think it's just much more a mental game than anything else.

So what about Brady Anderson, who went from 16 homers and 64 RBIs in 1995 to 50 homers and 110 RBI in 1996? He went from Marquis Grissom to Mark McGwire in a year, then back to Grissom the next year.

Luis Gonzalez hit only 84 homers from 1991-1997, then in '98 doubles his total from the season before and in 2001 hits 57 homers and 142 RBI.

No one can tell me Derek Lee, Juan Gonzalez or Tino Martinez didn't juice. No doubt they were good players but they probably wouldn't have been the amazing talents they were without the juice.

[Sweet Pea 50]

So what about Brady Anderson, who went from 16 homers and 64 RBIs in 1995 to 50 homers and 110 RBI in 1996? He went from Marquis Grissom to Mark McGwire in a year, then back to Grissom the next year.

Luis Gonzalez hit only 84 homers from 1991-1997, then in '98 doubles his total from the season before and in 2001 hits 57 homers and 142 RBI.

No one can tell me Derek Lee, Juan Gonzalez or Tino Martinez didn't juice. No doubt they were good players but they probably wouldn't have been the amazing talents they were without the juice.

Warning Track.......

[Gareth Ivanovic]

So what about Brady Anderson, who went from 16 homers and 64 RBIs in 1995 to 50 homers and 110 RBI in 1996? He went from Marquis Grissom to Mark McGwire in a year, then back to Grissom the next year.

Luis Gonzalez hit only 84 homers from 1991-1997, then in '98 doubles his total from the season before and in 2001 hits 57 homers and 142 RBI.

No one can tell me Derek Lee, Juan Gonzalez or Tino Martinez didn't juice. No doubt they were good players but they probably wouldn't have been the amazing talents they were without the juice.

I agree those players probably wouldn't have put up the numbers they did without juicing. Still though baseball just isn't about hitting. It's what gets the fame and attention, but out of all those guys you mentioned with the exception of Derek Lee ( I don't think he juiced) all were average fielders or less.

Baseball is a game where your set up to fail. You could hit .300, which is considered good, but still means 70% of the time you fail. As a pitcher you could make 2 good pitches and then the third get rocked or make a good pitch and the ball loop into the outfield. As a fielder you could boot one ball and then just suddenly lose it and have the ball find you all game. It's about understanding that you know your gonna fail and a lot, but having enough confidence in your self to suceed the next time you get a chance. It's also a game that demands consistency.

Im not trying to defend steroid use, but I guess I just stick up for the sport I love the most. IMO I see it personally helping out a lot of other sports a lot more than baseball. Then in the media whenever some guy from another sport gets caught it's in the news cycle for a few days and forgotten, but baseball it stays forever. I understand that it's MLB problem because they didn't regulate, but it just seems like a double standard by the media when it comes to other athletes in different sports.

[AztecWanker]

I wouldn't doubt if the older players used something in their days. I know greenies were being used quite a bit. Mike Schmidt is in the HOF and admitted to using them.

As for baseball it's still a sport. The toughest thing to do in all of sports IMO is hitting a baseball. Great athletes even have a hard time at it. Somebody like Lebron probably would never be able to make it playing baseball. Put him in a football uniform and I think he would be a solid player, maybe even a great one. Put him in a baseball uniform and does as good as Jordan did, possibly worse.

I completely disagree, my dude. Hitting a fastball deals more with hand-to-eye coordination more than anything. Any mothu****a that juices can LEARN to hit a ball. Hitting a 30 ft. jumper in basketball, amateur wrestling, and especially boxing is physically tougher than hitting a fastball.

[Gareth Ivanovic]

I completely disagree, my dude. Hitting a fastball deals more with hand-to-eye coordination more than anything. Any mothu****a that juices can LEARN to hit a ball. Hitting a 30 ft. jumper in basketball, amateur wrestling, and especially boxing is physically tougher than hitting a fastball.

I'll agree that boxing and wrestling is physically tougher no doubt. I wrestled and out of all the sports I did it was physically the toughest even more so than football (american). Hitting a baseball though isn't something any juiced person or not can do. Especially hitting it consistently because it's so mental. You either have to be naturally gifted or somthing that is learned over a period of time. A fastball is one thing, but when you start have to react to a curveball, slider, changeup, a fastball that sinks, moves in or out it it becomes totally different. The majority of the time you have to deal with failure and some people just can't do that. It's all about consistency, somebody can get a hit once, but can they do it over and over again consistently. Not just any juiced guy can do that.

[AztecWanker]

I'll agree that boxing and wrestling is physically tougher no doubt. I wrestled and out of all the sports I did it was physically the toughest even more so than football (american). Hitting a baseball though isn't something any juiced person or not can do. Especially hitting it consistently because it's so mental. You either have to be naturally gifted or somthing that is learned over a period of time. A fastball is one thing, but when you start have to react to a curveball, slider, changeup, a fastball that sinks, moves in or out it it becomes totally different. The majority of the time you have to deal with failure and some people just can't do that. It's all about consistency, somebody can get a hit once, but can they do it over and over again consistently. Not just any juiced guy can do that.

True that, homie. But you have only a couple of pitches to worry about. Over time you can adapt to them. Unlike wrestling, where you have to worry about scrambles and a ton of locks and in boxing where you have to worry about different styles in your opponents, different combinations, fighting a southpaw etc. etc. There are alot of things about boxing and wrestling that you just can't coach.

[withoutthee8]

There are no sp,ikes in Aaron's numbers like there were in Bond's case. There was no rapid body transformation.

Neither was there with A-Fraud.

[Gareth Ivanovic]

True that, homie. But you have only a couple of pitches to worry about. Over time you can adapt to them. Unlike wrestling, where you have to worry about scrambles and a ton of locks and in boxing where you have to worry about different styles in your opponents, different combinations, fighting a southpaw etc. etc. There are alot of things about boxing and wrestling that you just can't coach.

It's not as easy to adapt to pitches as you think. Not every pitcher is the same. Some throw really hard, some don't, some have hard break on their breaking pitches, some have more of a loop to it. Plus some pitchers may have better control than other and can hit the outside corner or inside corners and your gonna have to adjust. Some may be wild so that keeps you a little nervous in the box and don't know what to expect. Some guys can become gun shy after gettting hit.

I look at it like this in wrestling and boxing athleticism will help you out a lot. People's athleticism can overcome certain situations, it doesn't mean they are gonna win, but it helps them out. In baseball it's not gonna have as much of an effect at least in hitting. Look at Michael Jordan possibly one of the best athletes ever and he tried baseball and wasn't very good at it. His athleticism didn't help him out. What he wasn't used to was the failure that comes with baseball. Your gonna fail way more times than succeed. That's where i think hitting a baseball is so hard it's not the physical part it's the mental part. Mike was strong mentally, but the failure in baseball broke him. He's not the only good athlete i've seen struggle at baseball and it's not the physical part its the mental aspect.