Scottie Pippen: LeBron Greatest Ever

[hhs661]

They got him his first year in the NBA. Lucky...yes or no? My point is. Those guys were together a long time, both HOFers. So Jordan has no room to talk about how it's "wrong for superstars to get together to win championships"

So Pippen was a superstar in his first year out of Arkansas Little Rock or whatever school he came out of? Jordan and Pippen didn't call each other up on draft day and talk about forcing himself to be traded to Chicago. That was between the front offices that gave up OLDEN POLYNICE for Pippen. Period. What you're trying to argue here is pretty pointless.

You're ignoring what is required to win a championship in the NBA currently. How is it wrong for these guys to want to get together?

The only teams winning Championships are built with multiple superstars and multiple all-stars.

Team play is required to win titles. You're defending a guy that wanted the weight off his shoulders. Jordan, Magic, Bird etc etc stayed with their teams through tought playoff loses cause they wanted to be THE MAN. Lebron left. Cleveland had enough money to sign 2 max contracts last season but Lebron left them hanging til "the decision"

Uhhhh...Kemp was vastly over rated. Fact. And second, Gary Payton? How big was he really? Let's compare him to say John Stockton or Jason Kidd who have proven/proved more effective for much, much longer.

Wait... Kemp in Seattle was overrated?? You sure about that? That Seattle team had a lot of talent. Schrempf, Kemp, Payton, Hawkins, Sam Perkins. Don't act like they were the 2010 Atlanta Hawks.

Let me see....the Indiana Pacers that year took Chicago to 7 games (and almost won in game 7). With only 1 real superstar. The Sonics managed to get 2 games when Chicago was being Lazy.

What does this mean? Indiana had great teams. If you think the Davis' frontline wasn't solid with Rik Smits then you're crazy. I'll just let you rethink your opinion on the Pacers of the 90s.

I will admit The Jazz did have 2 superstars and HOFers (so did the Rockets, Hakeem and Clyde the Glide). But the only other effective player they had was a future HOFer suffering much more downside age in Jeff Hornacek. Who did they have to build around those guys?

My point is. The Utah Jazz of the 1990s were not as good as about every single team that has won a championship in the 2000s. Again, Chicago was the only super team of the era.

Are you kidding me? The Spurs of the 00s molded their team after the Jazz. With Hornacek, Russel, Big Country Malone and Stockton. They did that with Parker, Gino, Bruce Bowen, Rasho and Duncan. How you don't see the similaritites is beyond me but more power to you. The 90s Jazz team was the team that kept eliminating the Lakers before their 1st 3-Peat but ok, they weren't as good as any team in the 00s.

[quote]Today you have a few super teams in the 2000s competing for championships. *YES OR NO*?[quote] What superteams are there today? It's Miami and Miami only. Boston broke their team up. Lakers are older and San Antonio aren't the team they were in 2005. What other SUPERTEAMS are there today?

Don't think of the Kemp that left to Cleveland, had about 12 kids, and became overweight.

Terrible. Not hard to see why you think the Mavs will win this series despite very obvious reasons why they won't. I'm a huge Pacers fan cause I lived there. But none of those teams are as good as the 2000s, Celtics, Lakers (2 generations), SA. *NONE* You're high as a kite if you think they were.

The Kemp that left to Cleveland was the one that gave up on the NBA. The one in Seattle was a ****ing Beast. Don't believe me, make a poll after you read this. Wait, you think the Pacers of the 90s weren't as good as San Antonio or Boston(who only had a 3 year run in a watered down Eastern Conference. They had Miller, Smits, Mark Jackson, Antonio and Dale Davis, Travis Best(who played his roll), and McKey?

Doubtful. The Detroit Piston team then was not any better than the 2004/2005 pistons. Which I consider to be the least of the championship teams from the 2000s. Again, aging lakers, aging celtics, and if you want to get picky the pistons were on the downside as well.

WOW.. The Bad Boys Pistons weren't as good as the 2005 team? Are you out of your mind right now? You accused me of being high but went on to actually post this yourself? Rodman, Dumars, Lambier, Thomas, Mahorn weren't better?? You know you saying this doesn't help your case about the 72 win Bulls that had an older Dennis Rodman, right? If you really, really believe that the Bad Boys weren't better than the 2005 Pistons then there's nothing else to talk about. Seriously, you are beyond wrong on this one.

It's pretty obvious that in the 80s that Boston and LA had the very elite talent no matter how it was spread in the league. And by the 90s one time had that very elite talent. You're making my point for me. The talent was spread more evenly in the 80s and 90s meaning that the teams who could secure the most of the best would have a huge advantage.

You just said the 2005 team was better than the Bad Boys Pistons. So how was the talent being spread around, In you opinion, in the 80s? Besides, Rodman going to the Bulls shouldn't be that big of a deal to you since you said yourself that his Pistons teams were worse than the least dominant team of the 00s. You are really messing up your argument at the moment. Please, stop and rethink the entire argument.

It was his 4th season. *Full season*.....Uh...Pippen played 79 games off the bench his first season. Does that not count?

He's at the exact same point when Jordan won his first championship. Easy way????

He gave Cleveland 7 seasons. Did you see them make the progress the Bulls did in securing the right pieces to win? That would be a no. Cleveland acquired no true role players and kept them there. Every piece they added they got rid of or were impatient about. If there was a top 50 all time player on that team with Lebron....

Look up Pippen's numbers and tell me if they were Top 50 of all time numbers by his 4th full season in the league. You really need to learn the history of the game a little more. It's looking awful for you at this point.

So did they or didn't they try and make progress in Lebron's stay? Acquiring guys like Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison don't count for nothing? Especially when they started with guys like Jeff McInnis, Eric Williams and Kevin Ollie?? Seriously? They bent over backwards for Lebron but if you didn't see that then you must be blind.

[hhs661]

YA THINK! (Duh, Pippen is top 50 all time, Lebron has never, ever played with a prime top 50 all time player)

Clevelands management is terrible. Period. If the right pieces were there to win a championship, he wouldn't have left.

My point was really simple. The Bulls had a very good team around Jordan. Cleveland never had even a mediocre team around James. (After 7 years too), so why are you hating on him going to where he can win?

Wait.. So you wouldn't call Wade a top 50 player? He's playing with one right now, in his prime. Bosh is a solid player that he's also playing with. lol Maybe the Cavs would have brought in someone else if Lebron would've signed with them and allowed them to throw that other max contract for a big name FA. Instead, he knew Wade was staying and Bosh wasn't going to Cleveland so he bailed. Period. Packed his bags and rode another "SUPERSTARS" back.

That is no ones fault but the coaching and management. You cannot blame him for them not putting a team around him built to win. James is a better defensive player. Beyond just steals and blocks (stats). If you didn't see that in the series they just played, you're blind. Jordan was not a shut down defensive player and you can go over the stats of shooting guards who played against him and see that.

You say they didn't try, but they brought in players every season to accomadate and please Lebron. He had a say in everything. He knew once Amare went to NY and Bosh or Wade weren't coming to Cleveland that he was ****ed. Cleveland was even trying to make a last minute trade for CP3 when Lebron made his decision. So yes, they were trying to do everything in their power to make that team a legit threat. Were they not? You're living in the now. He made Rose a jump shooter for certain spots in the 4th. He wasn't chasing the boy around all game long. I mean I watch games, not highlights on ESPN so I can't even go there anymore with you.

Jordan not a shut down defender?? Wow. I really can't believe this is coming off your keyboard right now. How many 1st team all defenses did he make. Hell Jordan is one of 2 players to win MVP and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season. An award Lebron hasn't won once. I mean, if that's not shut down, then please tell me what is.

Derrick Rose managing 30% shooting tells you something.

I hope this isn't your argument.

BPG? You must be misreading the lines. They both average 0.8 BPG in their careers. 49.7% career vs 47.9% career, *I already said he averaged more steals per game....you just gonna repeat me?* 1.7 to 2.35, Jordan averaged more fouls, 2.73 TO to 3.33, 83.5% FT to 74.4% (again, as I said, and contributory to the PPG difference).

I put even on blocks. For a guy that's 2 inches shorter and 40lbs lighter he shouldn't even be seeing Lebron in bpg. Yet, you disregard the shooting percentage. Jordan on both ends of the floor was more dominant. but then again, he wasn't a shut down defender lol.

[/quote]2 Rebounds per game more is huge. It's 2 possessions of difference. Far more than having 0.6 more steals a game.

Having 1 more assist per game is also 2 points more for your team. [/quote]
Wait, are you trying to say every rebound Lebron has gotten has resulted in a made basket? You do realize that a majority of steals end up being fast break buckets right? You do realize this don't you? I really have no idea where you're going with your argument but I can do math and say 49% of shots is 2% more than 47. Meaning out of 100 shots, Jordan makes 2 more buckets.. See how the balance beam is now teetering on my side?

I grew up on Jordan. He did not have stifling defense, he had opportunistic defense. What James just displayed on Derrick Rose, Jordan *never did*, I watched Reggie Miller play Jordan for years, and years in the east and he never shut him down a whole series like we just saw.
Or not...as I just showed. Rebounds do involve points....*DUH, DUH, DUH* how do you think teams score without possession of the ball?

Jordan didn't have stifling defense? Wow.. I really don't know how old you were and what game you were watching but this is just a joke by now. You're saying this about Jordan but then back up James with a few possessions on Rose? Seriously? Against a guy that isn't much of a shooter and had no other options on his team.. Seriously, go back to your argument about teams Jordan faced and tell me what team from the 80s or 90s could the Bulls of 2010-2011 actually defeat lol. You seem lost right now.

Again, are you saying that every rebound Lebron grabbed resulted in a made basket? If that's the case, I will give you your props and declare myself owned. If not, don't talk like they did. Cause I can use the blocks, steals and fg% the same way you're trying to do with rebounds.

How are you failing to see this easy point?

They wouldn't have been able to grow themselves into anything without the Bulls *ACQUIRING* Pippen and the complimentary components.

Cleveland never drafted or traded to draft a single effective player to go with Lebron and never groomed effective role players around him and keep the team from massive turnover of players.

Really? The Cavs didnt try and make an attempt by bringing in Shaq, Jamison, Mo Williams, Varejao, Gibson(who hit big buckets in their playoff run to the finals)? I know it aint anything special, but that management didn't leave him with Kevin Ollie, Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall or Ira Newble for his entire 7 year run with Cleveland.

He was there 7 years. What do you propose he does? Stay there and waste his prime years not getting a championship?

Like I said homie, last year's Free Agent class was the best ever. He could have easily recruited another superstar the same way he got recruited to go to Miami. Even if he wasn't wanting to stay, why make Cleveland wait to know you're not coming back? C'mon son. Either way, I didn't have a problem with him going to Miami, what I'm arguing is that he aint seeing Jordan in the GOAT discussion..


But what we learned from you was that the 2005 Pistons were better than any of the 80s, early 90s Bad Boy Pistons. That Shawn Kemp in Seattle(when they went to the Finals) was overrated.

We also learned that you think the competition in the 00s were better than the competition in the 90s? Is that right?


oh and when Jordan went against Miller these were miller's points

16, 19, 28, 15, 14, 8 and 22.. an average of 17ppg.. What did Rose average against Miami in this eastern conference finals?? I mean, Miller only had 2, 20 point games, 4 games that were 16 and under and a 19 point game.. I guess that's not classified as a shut down or stifling defender. Oh well

[hhs661]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH



Terrible. Not hard to see why you think the Mavs will win this series despite very obvious reasons why they won't.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Well, looks like I wasn't kind of correct on picking the Mavs to win

[Mashadin]

This proves that being a professional basketball player doesn't make your opinion any better.

[-The Glove-]

Uhhhh...Kemp was vastly over rated. Fact. And second, Gary Payton? How big was he really? Let's compare him to say John Stockton or Jason Kidd who have proven/proved more effective for much, much longer.

Who the **** is this clown? Lol. Gary Payton held Jordan to his worst finals performance EVER! One of the greatest defensive PG's and could beat you in so many ways on offense. He was never flashy on offense but his game was very effective. And Gary Payton taught Kidd everything he knows. Kidd always mentions how GP mentored him as a teen in Oakland. And GP almost always won that matchup when they played against eachother.

EDIT: I'm obviously KIDDing about GP teaching him everything he knows.

And KEMP was the ****in' MAN in Seattle.

[baCCaT]

Well, looks like I wasn't kind of correct on picking the Mavs to win

green k'd hahaha