My Top 10 All Time P4p.

[MarkScott]

I'm surprised hardly anyone includes some of the greats from the pre-Dempsey days, when they fought up to 45 rounds with 4 ounce gloves. Tough guys!


http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biogr...7086256&sr=1-1

[wmute]

congratulations, i never thought someone would be able to put together a list denegrating the best fighters of all time but there you go you've done it and made yourself look like a complete idiot.


my list:

1. sugar ray robinson: welter and middleweight champ, brilliant all round boxer, had over 200 fights, beat the best welters and middleweights of his era. almost universally regarded as the best ever.

2. Henry Armstrong: ferocious boxer, awesome stamina, only man to hold titles at three weights at the same time, pretty awesome achievment.

3. Roberto Duran: had all the skills, easily the greatest lightweight ever,nearly unbeatable as a lw, went on to win titles at welterweight and middleweight against bigger men. (only 5''7, very short for a middleweight, and below average for welterweight) did lose to other ATG's but this was above his natural weight and when he was in his 30's. however he did record a great victory against one. (srl)

4. willie pep: regarded as the most elusive fighter ever, featherweight champ, had some great victories, nearly untouchable defence wise.

5. Alexis Arguello: featherweight,super featherweight and lightweight champ, lost a very suspicious bout to aaron pryor, had great power and was very skilled and explosive in the ring.

6.sugar ray leonard: multiple weight champion, won some awesome fights in what was actually a rather brief but glamourous career.

7. joe louis: held the heavyweight title for ages, huge puncher, very tenacious, fought in a strong era, continued to fight until way past his prime.

8. muhammad ali: one of the best known boxers of all time, awesome speed and skill, won against george foreman, a fight he wasnt expected to win, two victories and one loss against joe frazier, another top class heavyweight, three time heavyweight champ.

9. harry greb: from what has been said about him he was an outstanding boxer, fought half blind for alot of his career which says a hell of alot about his talent.

10. pernell whittaker: great fighter, awesome defence, multiple weight class champ, latter half of his career hampered by a cocaine addiction.

so there, thats a top ten off my head, some great fighters were left out though, such as jimmy wilde, joe frazier, jack dempsey, julio cesar chavez, tommy hearns, marvin hagler, jake la motta, george foreman, mike tyson,.......rocky graziano,salvador sanchez ( too short a career , had the potential to be a top 10 p4p) wilfredo benitez .......and countless more

EASILY the greatest lightweight ever. hmmm

In order of appearance

Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Roberto Duran
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather Jr.
...

EASILY?

I have Duran #1 at 135 as well, but there is nothing easy about that

[JAB5239]

I don't know, Jones has Toney and Hopkins on his resume, and a heavyweight belt. Not too shabby. Hopkins is probably in the top 3 of the greatest middle weights, and he beat him near his prime. Toney was a great fighter who had tons of skill, so much skill he's still beating todays heavyweights with a smw frame and 50 lbs of extra fat. If you look at the scenario when he beat him - it looks even more impressive. Jumping a weight class and taking on the top dog and dominating.

Jones was incredible. Probably one of if not the most gifted fighter ever. But besides Toney, his resume compared to guys I think are more deserving, is lacking. Hopkins had yet to really establish himself, and the win over Ruiz, although inpressive, is a bit overrated. Impressive that he was able to move so far up, but it still came against the weakest link.

I do give him props for his run at 175 and keep the titles unified for as long as he did, but it was a pretty weak bunch if you compare it to the other all timers. That said.....he's up there and I have no doubt about his ability to compete all time. The guy was great, he just doesn't crack my top 10.

Mayweather is a little overrated but he jumped so many weight classes and still won convincingly.

Floyd is another fighter who skill seemed limitless. But after 130 he never cleaned out a division or made fights with the best of the best. Whats worse is he started cherry picking guys for money and then retired with a bunch of question marks. Skipping weight classes and winning tiltles means little to me when compared to men who dominated divisions and won the only championship during their era's. If I based my list on skill, Floyd would be there. But I can name at least 25 guys who had better careers and resumes than Floyd, and probably another 25 that could be argued about.

You can't base everything on how many fights the guy had, that doesn't determine skill so much.

You're right my friend. But level of competition and longevity does.

I forgot to put Jofre on my list (just looked at yours)

Jofre was incredibly skilled, had great longevity and beat some great fighters. Oddly enough I still question myself as to whether he belongs in the top 10. I could make arguments against him as I have Jones and Mayweather. But what I know and have seen f him as well as every opinin I've ever read from experts....he makes the cut.

None of this really matters. I juggle my p4p lists all the time. The more you learn about fighters, the harder it is to keep a list the same.