Haye & Vitali Rotator Cuff injury...

[Redd Foxx]

Those are my thoughts but if you say anything even remotely reasonable favoring Manny Pacquiao these guys will smell blood, get all panty twisted and rabidly jump on you blindly with all sorts of labels.

Agreed. I've defended and supported both guys whenever it's appropriatebut no one is interested in the truth anymore. It's like politics, everyone is so planted in identifying themselvesas left or right that they're blinding themselves to the fact that the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

[Rustle Wilson]

Come on man. Lowering Pac's output is one thing. But he threw less than Maidana in the rematch where Floyd 'ran' and clinched even more than he did this past Saturday. Obviously something was off with Pac.

He ate like 2,000 right hands from Marquez but always threw and threw and threw, even when Marquez's counters and movements cut down his normal output. Didn't seem like anything Floyd threw at him hurt enough to stymie him. Manny said as much after the fight.

Just couldn't let his hands go like he wanted outside of spurts here and there.

In all of the Marquez fights (the ones that went the distance) Pac's workrate was waaaay below his average. Especially the 3rd fight. As it was in both Bradley fights. I guess his rotator cuff blew out on him in all of those fights as well?

Both Bradley & Marquez took certain steps that led to the lowering of Pac's punch output. Bradley mainly with his jab & lateral movement. Marquez with his right hand counters and some lateral movement (specifically in the 3rd fight) Floyd with his speed, reach, footwork, timing, elusiveness etc. allowed him to take what Bradley & Marquez did to a whole 'nother level. The lopsided outcome of the fight was due to a gulf in class between the two. Nothing more, nothing less. Pac is just not capable of competing at Floyd's level. Stylistically, Floyd is just all wrong for lil buddy.

[BennyST]

He had 50% of his normal output. Have you ever watched him fight before? Evenbefore the injury was revealed, everyone was saying that something was off. This really isn't that hard to figure out.

50% of his normal output?!? You're saying 900 or so punches is his normal out put?!? That's what you're using as proof of his injury? His ****ing output...against Floyd Mayweather, then you say 'it isn't hard to figure out'...

So does that mean Pac also had a shoulder injury against Marquez? He only threw about 550 punches in that fight.

He only threw 550 punches against Bradley and both are much more offensively minded, and defensively leaky, so Pacquiao should have been throwing right up around 800-900 punches, right? RIGHT?

So he throws only 550 against two guys who he finds relatively easy to hit and who throw lots back, but you think that he must be injured when he throws less against someone who is ten times harder to read, figure out, land punches on and lead against, because everything you throw gets countered and his reach and distance make you lunge and reach nearly every time? It really isn't that hard to figure out mate.

You know why people don't throw as much as they normally do against Hopkins? Why didn't Pavlik throw 1000 punches in that fight? Did he have an injury? Mutha****in ******.

It's because that's what they do. They force you to fight at a slow pace that suits them and Pac was trying to counter Floyd's counters, so it ended up being a chess match with very little leading. Nothing to do with an injury. It was Pac's poor game plan and his obviously overrated sense of his own boxing skills.

[kenso]

There are very different forms of a rotator cuff injury. You can tear the tendon, you can have a labrum tear, you can have weightlifter's shoulder (also known as osteolysis of the distal clavicle). Aside from a complete detachment of tendon from bone, you can still "function" with a hurt shoulder.

I have osteolysis of the distal clavicle, which is essentially bone around the AC joint growing as a response to imposed stress and cutting into your rotator cuff tendon. I also have an infraspinatus tear in one of my shoulders. These are injuries from weightlifting, but I also used to hit the punching bag a lot and I feel that may have set the stage for these injuries.

I can still function in day to day life, and I could honestly fight someone and be able to fight, but I'd be SERIOUSLY impaired compared to my normal, healthy self. Hooks would be out of the question. Training to hit a bag would be out of the question. My shoulders would be in pain after 1 min of fighting. If I fought 12 rounds, my shoulders would be BEYOND ****ed.

So to keep a long story short... you can carry on physical activity with rotator cuff tears or injuries. However, you're just operating at 25-50%. Anyone notice that Pac's hooks were super slow? Part of it is age, but him having a rotator cuff injury is a serious detriment - one that CAN be fought with to a degree, though.

[Ray*]

To be honest i dont care about this "Injury", he talked sooo much crap coming into the fight that am not willing to listen to this excuses. All fighters fight with injury to some degree, he was raising his right hand at the end of the fight to indicate he won not his left, he was saying he won at the end of the fight and claimed the other guy "didnt do nothing" with no class, everyone with any sort of brains know his output would be lowered against Floyd, he isnt fighting a punching bag.

So phuck off you lot with that crap about something was wrong with him in that fight, of course something was wrong with him, he has a jab stuck in his face all night, couldnt land ***** when he got TBE on the ropes with 10 punch flurries and got disinterested when he knew he couldnt do *****.

[KickedOuttaGQ]

Even before this fight it's already been proven that that you can significantly lower Pac's output with the threat of right hand counters and/or by sticking a jab in his face as well as by using lateral movement...both Bradley & Marquez employed these steps and lowered Pac's output substantially in their fights...Mayweather is levels above both Marquez and Bradley and it showed. Pac's uncharacteristically low output had everything to do with the man infront of him, which was leaps and bounds the best opponent he's ever faced. There was no injury. The result of the fight had more to do with the stark gap in skills between the two. Pac is just not on Mayweather's level and it showed.

Even in that gif you have posted, you can tell Pac is favoring his right arm.

[KickedOuttaGQ]

it was probably a minor injury that healed partially then made it worst during the fight.

I work with some of the best Orthopedic Surgeons (Cedar Sinai, Kerlan Jobe, Saint Johns, Keck Medical). Ive worked with a lot of patients who's had similar injury. If he has a tear and its minor, it can heal without surgery but you would need to let it rest and immobilize your shoulder most of the time until its completely healed and do some light physical therapy. But since he was training, it never had a chance to heal. He could have chosen to go with surgery as soon as he got the tear but it would take 4 - 6 months (from my observation) for him to be able to heavy training. Again we are talking about a minor tear. I think it got aggravated during the fight like you mentioned, and he now has significant tear on his shoulder that would require surgery because rest alone wont help it heal and a longer recovery time.

[IronDanHamza]

Come on man. Lowering Pac's output is one thing. But he threw less than Maidana in the rematch where Floyd 'ran' and clinched even more than he did this past Saturday. Obviously something was off with Pac.

He ate like 2,000 right hands from Marquez but always threw and threw and threw, even when Marquez's counters and movements cut down his normal output. Didn't seem like anything Floyd threw at him hurt enough to stymie him. Manny said as much after the fight.

Just couldn't let his hands go like he wanted outside of spurts here and there.

Difference is he didn't have much trouble catching Marquez.

He did with Floyd.

[beez721]

50% of his normal output?!? You're saying 900 or so punches is his normal out put?!? That's what you're using as proof of his injury? His ****ing output...against Floyd Mayweather, then you say 'it isn't hard to figure out'...

So does that mean Pac also had a shoulder injury against Marquez? He only threw about 550 punches in that fight.

He only threw 550 punches against Bradley and both are much more offensively minded, and defensively leaky, so Pacquiao should have been throwing right up around 800-900 punches, right? RIGHT?

So he throws only 550 against two guys who he finds relatively easy to hit and who throw lots back, but you think that he must be injured when he throws less against someone who is ten times harder to read, figure out, land punches on and lead against, because everything you throw gets countered and his reach and distance make you lunge and reach nearly every time? It really isn't that hard to figure out mate.

You know why people don't throw as much as they normally do against Hopkins? Why didn't Pavlik throw 1000 punches in that fight? Did he have an injury? Mutha****in ******.

It's because that's what they do. They force you to fight at a slow pace that suits them and Pac was trying to counter Floyd's counters, so it ended up being a chess match with very little leading. Nothing to do with an injury. It was Pac's poor game plan and his obviously overrated sense of his own boxing skills.

well,,,if its true that hes getting surgery to repair a tear than he very well may have been handicapped in that fight. he shouldnt be using it as an excuse tho. if you fight with an injury youre your own worst enemy. he should have kept his mouth shut and hes an idiot for thinking he won that fight. it wasnt even that close

[BennyST]

Difference is he didn't have much trouble catching Marquez.

He did with Floyd.

Exactly man. He didn't have much trouble at all, and he also knew he could hurt and drop Marquez any time he landed cleanly, and he still threw only 550 punches against Marquez.

Now you have guys going "he didn't throw 900 or 1000 punches against Floyd! Obvious that his shoulder had completely separated and that it was in danger of falling off!"