Pick a fighter to beat me ...

[Daddy T]

or conceed and pick someone new.
My pick is the Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight. Can you name any fighter from any night on their given career who you would feel confident enough in to bet your house on him beating this Ali?

[likeamulekick]

or conceed and pick someone new.
My pick is the Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight. Can you name any fighter from any night on their given career who you would feel confident enough in to bet your house on him beating this Ali?

nope. id throw lewis, holmes, norton, frazier and tyson his way but i think the cleveland williams ali is probably the closest thing to invincible. If i HAD to bet my house on it i would bet on ali to beat all those guys

[Sugarj]

or conceed and pick someone new.
My pick is the Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight. Can you name any fighter from any night on their given career who you would feel confident enough in to bet your house on him beating this Ali?

Lets face it Ali looked absolutely brilliant in beating that faded version of Williams. He might not have looked quite so impressive against a more 'live' opponent.......but lets be honest there were times when William's handspeed looked quick that night, and he really did catch air all the time. Ali's reflexes were phenominal. The fight almost looked like one of those choreographed martial arts movies.........the combination work and accuracy were stunning.

Could anyone in history have beaten Ali over 12 or 15 rounds the way he looked that night?

I honestly don't think there is anyone I'd put money on. Stylistically the most trouble Ali had was with Ken Norton.......but you'd have to say that if 1973 Ali can split decision him, then 1966 Ali would be more decisive.

In 1971 Frazier not only gave Ali terrible stylistic problems, but he was also probably a shade fitter too. But the decision win for Frazier was very close and I'd have to favour a more prime version of Ali to turn the decision in his own favour.

Prime Larry Holmes would give Ali some serious problems. But I'd still shade Ali on his slight advantages in hand and footspeed.

Lennox Lewis had the tools to beat Ali, but not the distance workrate.

I've always felt that 1988 Mike Tyson would give Ali a good scare for 5 rounds or so. Similar dimensions to Frazier; however for the early rounds his pace and pressure were more than that of Joe, his head movement was pretty good too. This coupled with his obvious advantages in handspeed and wider punch arsenal could make things very tricky for even prime Ali.

The problem is that Tyson.....whilst still effective after round 6 of a fight did tend to suffer from a drop in pace. Usually his points advantage and the punishment suffered by the opponent up to this point was enough to see Tyson though to several of his points victories. But Ali near as dammit always finished fights well....so I'd still favour Ali.

Ha ha, three prime Tyson clones; one exchanged every 5 rounds might pull off a win over 15 rounds!!!!

The day will come when a heavyweight will arrive that honestly would have beaten prime Ali head to head. The way sizes are going, there will be a day when it would be ridiculous to suggest that a 6ft 3 212Lb Ali could have beaten someone so big. The same way that it would be ridiculous to suggest that prime Sugar Ray Robinson would beat every light heavyweight in history! There has to be a point where size advantages and good talent offsets a superior talent with inferior physical advantages.

30 years for now we might have Valuev sized heavyweights who can move well, punch quickly and hit with ludicrous power. Back in Joe Louis's day it would not have been concieved that heavyweights with the dimensions of Lennox Lewis or Wlad Klitschko could move, or have reflexes or handspeed of their levels.

But I don't think we'll ever see a heavyweight who was better outside the ring than Ali.

[likeamulekick]

Lets face it Ali looked absolutely brilliant in beating that faded version of Williams. He might not have looked quite so impressive against a more 'live' opponent.......but lets be honest there were times when William's handspeed looked quick that night, and he really did catch air all the time. Ali's reflexes were phenominal. The fight almost looked like one of those choreographed martial arts movies.........the combination work and accuracy were stunning.

Could anyone in history have beaten Ali over 12 or 15 rounds the way he looked that night?

I honestly don't think there is anyone I'd put money on. Stylistically the most trouble Ali had was with Ken Norton.......but you'd have to say that if 1973 Ali can split decision him, then 1966 Ali would be more decisive.

In 1971 Frazier not only gave Ali terrible stylistic problems, but he was also probably a shade fitter too. But the decision win for Frazier was very close and I'd have to favour a more prime version of Ali to turn the decision in his own favour.

Prime Larry Holmes would give Ali some serious problems. But I'd still shade Ali on his slight advantages in hand and footspeed.

Lennox Lewis had the tools to beat Ali, but not the distance workrate.

I've always felt that 1988 Mike Tyson would give Ali a good scare for 5 rounds or so. Similar dimensions to Frazier; however for the early rounds his pace and pressure were more than that of Joe, his head movement was pretty good too. This coupled with his obvious advantages in handspeed and wider punch arsenal could make things very tricky for even prime Ali.

The problem is that Tyson.....whilst still effective after round 6 of a fight did tend to suffer from a drop in pace. Usually his points advantage and the punishment suffered by the opponent up to this point was enough to see Tyson though to several of his points victories. But Ali near as dammit always finished fights well....so I'd still favour Ali.

Ha ha, three prime Tyson clones; one exchanged every 5 rounds might pull off a win over 15 rounds!!!!

The day will come when a heavyweight will arrive that honestly would have beaten prime Ali head to head. The way sizes are going, there will be a day when it would be ridiculous to suggest that a 6ft 3 212Lb Ali could have beaten someone so big. The same way that it would be ridiculous to suggest that prime Sugar Ray Robinson would beat every light heavyweight in history! There has to be a point where size advantages and good talent offsets a superior talent with inferior physical advantages.

30 years for now we might have Valuev sized heavyweights who can move well, punch quickly and hit with ludicrous power. Back in Joe Louis's day it would not have been concieved that heavyweights with the dimensions of Lennox Lewis or Wlad Klitschko could move, or have reflexes or handspeed of their levels.

But I don't think we'll ever see a heavyweight who was better outside the ring than Ali.

Honestly i think the good super HWS these days have hit the limit. Any bigger and talent starts to fade. Unless guys in the future are on some super roids that cant be detected. Id actually include wladimar in this debate. Anyone that big, tall, rangy, smart and strong that was up against an average puncher can never be taken lightly. Same for lewis, i think hes got the best shot against him. Holmes actually sparred alot with Ali prior to there fight and thats probably where he perfected his jab. I heard on an interview that he kept sparring with ali until he could beat him with his jab so i dont think holmes could hang with that ali

[Miburo]

I would pick Foreman to beat him on that night, Ali hadn't yet gone through the wars that enabled him to be able to beat Foreman at that point in his career. Athletically he was in his prime, but in terms of physical and mental toughness he wasn't fully developed as a fighter.

[Cardinal Buck]

^I pick Vitali to beat Foreman. Vitali would exploit Forman's lack of refinement, poor defense, and questionable stamina. Foreman's physical strength wouldn't be as effective against Vitali as other opponents. I could substitute Holmes or Lewis in for Vitali for the exact same reasons.

[T.Horton]

I would pick Foreman to beat him on that night, Ali hadn't yet gone through the wars that enabled him to be able to beat Foreman at that point in his career. Athletically he was in his prime, but in terms of physical and mental toughness he wasn't fully developed as a fighter.

he handled Liston. albeit an out of prime Sonny. And I believe that Sonny is much more fundamentally sound than George.

[Scott9945]

or conceed and pick someone new.
My pick is the Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight. Can you name any fighter from any night on their given career who you would feel confident enough in to bet your house on him beating this Ali?

There isn't one fighter that I'd pick to beat that version of Ali. Sure Williams was cannon fodder, but speed and reflexes like that are unmistakable.

[Miburo]

he handled Liston. albeit an out of prime Sonny. And I believe that Sonny is much more fundamentally sound than George.

Liston and Foreman are very different fighters. You're not going to beat Foreman by boxing and moving, he could cut off the ring as well as anyone in history.

[Boxing Bob]

I would pick Foreman to beat him on that night, Ali hadn't yet gone through the wars that enabled him to be able to beat Foreman at that point in his career. Athletically he was in his prime, but in terms of physical and mental toughness he wasn't fully developed as a fighter.

You're kidding right? Foreman? The 70s or 90s version of Foreman wouldn't lay a glove on that version of Ali