Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[ShoulderRoll]

You are a chump who knows nothinrg !

I feel confident that I know much more than you.

he may not know anything about boxing but he's got a hella sweet haircut!

It's a grease fire waiting to happen.

Cmon, non of this historical champs, like Dempsey, Jack Johnson wouldn`t have a chance against modern heavyweights. Be realistic, those guys were simple too small. And they were not muscular and strong like Mike Tyson. Even iron Mike was stopped when he faced much bigger guys ( Lennox).

Stop idealizing fighters from the past.

Once again...David Tua was smaller and less skilled than Dempsey.

If he can go 12 with Lennox Lewis why would Dempsey have no chance?

[billeau2]

Um, yes, people are faster today. Just compare the Gold Medalist in the Men's Marathon in the 1924 Olympics to the Gold Medalist in the 2016 Olympics.

And compare the equipment, compare the aspirations... A marathon runner from Persia was competing against his cousin from another village, in the New York City Marathon runners come from all over the world... REcently I read how they are making shoes from a printer, now thats technology! REcords are indeed broken but for us to actually get faster, stronger, is a stretch. We would need to know what things it was/is that makes us "faster, stronger" etc.

The social things that make us better apply both ways VG: Boxers of the last great stretch, from the 190's to the end of the 70's trained longer in the craft, started ealier, and had better technical understanding because of this. Meanwhile more great athletes from all over the world became basketball players and fighters, that also had an impact. Its hard to make a definitive statement about which one is "better."

[billeau2]

You are a chump who knows nothinrg !

Guys before this degenerates into another one of these threads there are a few things we can all probably agree upon:

Tunney happens to be a great example of a guy fighting with understanding from the epoche of boxing before the modern era. His mentor was Corbet who came up pretty much in the tail end of Sullivan's reign.

Gloves were different, the punches that Tunney used, like a lead would not work with larger gloves for one thing. The rules were different. More grappling, things like trapping one hand to hit with the other were allowed in Tunney's time. Fights were longer...For Klitchsko to fight according to Tunney's rules it would be advantageous for him to drop weight so he could fight a long time.

One could compare Dempsey to Klitsko better than Tunney to Klitsko. I hope I am not taking liberties here but could we all agree on the following:

Neither man could fight the other man according to either set of rules and have it be compatible. Either man would have to make a major adjustment to accomodate the other so that there would be no parity... It might as well be another sport. With that said opinions may differ as to whom would win, but in my mind it would depend a lot on what set of conventions was fought under.

[Ray Corso]

"Floyd Mayweather is better than Sugar Ray Robinson in the skills department and only those who are brainwashed by nostalgia would refute my claims".....................

You don't know what your watching if you think Mayweather has more skills, talent and guts than Robinson! There is NOTHING that Mayweather does that is better than Sugar Ray.

You are welcome to your opinion but my opinion has more value because I actually worked in the business. If your a dentist or architect I'm not valuing my opinion of those professions over yours.

Dempsey was a top tier talent when evaluating him in his style and with his form. He was not a stand up boxer like Wlad. Wlad was very successful at utilizing his athletic ability especially learning a methodology from Stewart. Dempsey was also extremely gifted performing his style as a pressure fighter who had a great two handed attack.

Out of all the sports watched since the 1930's boxing has the least innovations as to techniques applied. There are no new punches thrown in fact there's less. The duration of title fights has decreased! There are more titles on the line offered by watered down federations than ever before.
In regards to the heavyweight competition the Klitz era was as bad as the early 50's up to 1960. It many ways it was worse because there so many more boxers available with the popularity of the amateur programs throughout the world.

People are only speculating about out comes, to decide a man like Dempsey has "no chance" just sounds like a boxings fanboy observation.
I'm not a huge fan of Dempsey I just admired his determination and attitude when the bell rang. When a fighter like Mike Tyson tells everyone he met when he was a kid that he is trying to emulate Dempsey that should explain to fans how Dempsey is
held in such high esteem.
Dempsey came to destroy not have the judges play a roll. Fighters who bring that methodology are always more impressive than a fellow like Wlad who jabs and holds. Mayweather couldn't carry Robinson's jock, come on Mayweather is a 130 pounder not a welter yet there are people on this forum who think he's ATG over everyone? Really he had 12 fights at 147! ok enough of this tripe.
Elroy would be right in the middle with toilet paper on his shoe!

Ray

[Kigali]

"Floyd Mayweather is better than Sugar Ray Robinson in the skills department and only those who are brainwashed by nostalgia would refute my claims".....................

You don't know what your watching if you think Mayweather has more skills, talent and guts than Robinson! There is NOTHING that Mayweather does that is better than Sugar Ray.

You are welcome to your opinion but my opinion has more value because I actually worked in the business. If your a dentist or architect I'm not valuing my opinion of those professions over yours.

Dempsey was a top tier talent when evaluating him in his style and with his form. He was not a stand up boxer like Wlad. Wlad was very successful at utilizing his athletic ability especially learning a methodology from Stewart. Dempsey was also extremely gifted performing his style as a pressure fighter who had a great two handed attack.

Out of all the sports watched since the 1930's boxing has the least innovations as to techniques applied. There are no new punches thrown in fact there's less. The duration of title fights has decreased! There are more titles on the line offered by watered down federations than ever before.
In regards to the heavyweight competition the Klitz era was as bad as the early 50's up to 1960. It many ways it was worse because there so many more boxers available with the popularity of the amateur programs throughout the world.

People are only speculating about out comes, to decide a man like Dempsey has "no chance" just sounds like a boxings fanboy observation.
I'm not a huge fan of Dempsey I just admired his determination and attitude when the bell rang. When a fighter like Mike Tyson tells everyone he met when he was a kid that he is trying to emulate Dempsey that should explain to fans how Dempsey is
held in such high esteem.
Dempsey came to destroy not have the judges play a roll. Fighters who bring that methodology are always more impressive than a fellow like Wlad who jabs and holds. Mayweather couldn't carry Robinson's jock, come on Mayweather is a 130 pounder not a welter yet there are people on this forum who think he's ATG over everyone? Really he had 12 fights at 147! ok enough of this tripe.
Elroy would be right in the middle with toilet paper on his shoe!

Ray

Dempsey was a bouncer at a lumberjack tavern....that should tell anybody how badass he was.

[mlac]

I feel confident that I know much more than you.



It's a grease fire waiting to happen.



Once again...David Tua was smaller and less skilled than Dempsey.

If he can go 12 with Lennox Lewis why would Dempsey have no chance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSftS2XK_bM

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

Then how the hell did he get past Fred Fulton, Carl Morris 2x, Jess Willard, and Luis Firpo? These guys were all hard hitting super heavies and the top contenders of the day. Dempsey went through em in a combined 7 rds. Didn't even stand a chance. The physical strength of Willard and Firpo wasn't a problem at all for Dempsey. He held his own just fine against Firpo who was known for his immense strength and Willard who weighed 65 lbs more than him.

Who exactly has Joshua beaten that will be remembered in history? Dominic Breazeale? Eric Molina? lmao those defenses are a JOKE! If any champ from the prewar era was found even TALKING to those guys they would have gotten stripped! To make things even worse he's going up against 41 year old Wlad Klitschko. Marciano fought a 38 year old Walcott and gets crucified on here!

But on the real explain to me why Dempsey would lose because of his size. It can't be because he is too weak, it has already been established that strength wouldn't be a problem.

Strength would be a problem because physics is physics and evolution is evolution whether you like it or not. Barring Willard who was a world champ what one of those guys were actually top contenders? Were they Olympic champions turning to pro? Were they title holders? Seems as if you've just picked the biggest boxers on his CV to name drop...

Have you actually seen these fighters fight? Their stance? Incredibly poor compared to nowadays. Your all lying to yourselfs just to keep with the in crowd.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

You're not the alternative view, you're the mainstream opinion. Almost everyone and their mom thinks that today's fighters are better just because they are bigger and have the sacred "modern sports science."





A 5'10" David Tua, with his limited skill set, could last the distance with crème de la crème Lennox Lewis.

But somehow the much more skilled and nuanced punching machine Jack Dempsey, at 6'1", wouldn't last 2 rounds with green Anthony Joshua?

Yes I am absolutely the alternative view because you'd never get the 'mainstream' saying Mayweather is better than SRR or Ali technically. A mainstream fan would look at me with disgust verging on the line of blasphemy. Do you want to make up anything else?.

The mainstream looool.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Strength would be a problem because physics is physics and evolution is evolution whether you like it or not. Barring Willard who was a world champ what one of those guys were actually top contenders? Were they Olympic champions turning to pro? Were they title holders? Seems as if you've just picked the biggest boxers on his CV to name drop...

Have you actually seen these fighters fight? Their stance? Incredibly poor compared to nowadays. Your all lying to yourselfs just to keep with the in crowd.

Evolution takes place over hundreds of thousands if not millions of years not 100 so get that pseudoscience out of here lol.

Amateur boxing was nowhere near the level of organization that it is now, fighters learned to fight in the ring from trial and error not by having amateur fights.

Name Drop? You said size would be a problem and I picked SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS from Dempsey's resume that he demolished in 3 rds or less.

I have seen Firpo and Willard fight, there is no footage of the other two so you cannot say that they were terrible when contemporary reports say that opposite. Firpo was the only one seen as unrefined but he was one of the biggest threats because of his strength, power, and pure brawling style.

I have read extensively on reports about the mentioned fighters and it has been established they were not bums so you can stop saying that and have an actual argument.

[REMOVE SHARK 55]

Evolution takes place over hundreds of thousands if not millions of years not 100 so get that pseudoscience out of here lol.

Amateur boxing was nowhere near the level of organization that it is now, fighters learned to fight in the ring from trial and error not by having amateur fights.

Name Drop? You said size would be a problem and I picked SUPER HEAVYWEIGHTS from Dempsey's resume that he demolished in 3 rds or less.

I have seen Firpo and Willard fight, there is no footage of the other two so you cannot say that they were terrible when contemporary reports say that opposite. Firpo was the only one seen as unrefined but he was one of the biggest threats because of his strength, power, and pure brawling style.

I have read extensively on reports about the mentioned fighters and it has been established they were not bums so you can stop saying that and have an actual argument.

And I'm saying those pre war Super Heavyweights were not as strong or as technically sound as their modern counterparts. It's common knowledge the big men couldn't fight for *hit in those days. The fight game has most definitely evolved can you not see it with your own eyes when you watch the older footage?.
The amateur system has breeded the best fighters. Even Sugar Ray won the golden gloves. Ali Gold. That trial and error is nethandral type of thinking which just validates my point even further.

I'm not saying the old fighters were bums and you can never take away Dempseys career but IMO Dempsey would never hold a world title in the HW division. Probably Cruiserweight however a young pup like Usyk would box circles round Dempsey, easily.