How to get fighters to fight in their Natural Weight classes...would this work?

[TheGreatA]

Are you sure? I think I remember Jörg Eipel being braininjured by Alain Marion and wasn't there a guy named Jacopucci or something? And those cases is Europe only.

Sorry I thought you meant world championship fights. Eipel suffered a brain injury which ended his career but didn't kill him since he is still alive. He was fighting for the EBU title.

[TheGreatA]

Sorry I thought you meant world championship fights. Eipel suffered a brain injury which ended his career but didn't kill him since he is still alive. He was fighting for the EBU title.

Angelo Jacopucci was injured against future middleweight champion Alan Minter in a fight for the EBU title and died 5 months later.

[TheGreatA]

Angelo Jacopucci was injured against future middleweight champion Alan Minter in a fight for the EBU title and died 5 months later.

An interesting story about this fight is that the ring doctor was actually convicted of manslaughter after Jacopucci died.

I'm not sure why but I'll try to find out.

[BattlingNelson]

Sorry I thought you meant world championship fights. Eipel suffered a brain injury which ended his career but didn't kill him since he is still alive. He was fighting for the EBU title.

I was thinking fights of championship distance.

Jacopucci died in a fight with Alan Minter:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...6778&cat=boxer

[BattlingNelson]

An interesting story about this fight is that the ring doctor was actually convicted of manslaughter after Jacopucci died.

I'm not sure why but I'll try to find out.

Lol you were a bit quicker than me there!

He did. So it says on boxrec.

[BattlingNelson]

You think the fighters of today have better stamina?


Fighters of the past also fought more so wouldn't that hinder their performance in follow-up fights that are to close together...also risking further injury? Or would it help to have rested fighters coming in fresher?

Although, less pay also might fuel the fighter to fight hard or maybe just do enough to win because he knows he has to fight again soon.

I think that the amount of punches thrown today compared to the pre 1980 fights is su****ious. No proofs it just me personally.

[Benny Leonard]

I think that the amount of punches thrown today compared to the pre 1980 fights is su****ious. No proofs it just me personally.

Interesting. Is there data on this?

I've always wondered what the punch-stats are for comparing eras. Way back when, they seem to barely throw and then over the years they seem to throw more and more but I don't know if fighters today really throw anymore than they did yesterday and it would also depend on the fighter.

I've heard one of the reasons before that fighters way back wanted to conserve their hands for the next fight which was soon to be. Then you also have the injured fighters that had to fight.

I don't know. You could probably add in longer rounds so maybe it plays on your mind to conserve for the long haul.


One thing is for sure, if what you are saying is true, then some of those mythical fights like the Sam McVey vs. Joe Jeannette needs to be called on. But maybe to them it was seen different and acition packed compared to the slower, boring fights.


But then we have fighters like Armstrong and Marciano who are talked about as the two Secretariats of boxing. At least we have film on these two because I think it personally gets out of hand.


I'll have to watch fights over again and compare.

Still wonder if there are stat references.

[TheGreatA]

Here are some Data Boxing punch statistics that I found from boxrec.com:

Blows- Carter 193/409 47%, Mims 120/360 33% W10

Blows- Louis 58/73 79%, Baer 9/24 38% TKO1

Blows- Zale 89/124 72%, Graziano 36/75 48% KO3

Blows- Charles 154/450 34%, Layne 99/440 23% W10

Blows- Jones 322/407 57%; Robinson 176/514 34% W10

[riveraboxing]

This topic was brought up with the Pac vs. Floyd possible fight.

Pac weighs in at 147 for his 135 pound fights. This past fight he weighed in at 149 {correct me if I'm wrong}. When Pac fights at 140, he will probably stick at 149 for his fight time weight. How is he able to do this? Like most fighters, they dehydrate for the weigh-in and then rehydrate by fight time. So, they are not 140 pound fighters by fight time.

Floyd, who fights at 147, fights at around 149 come fight time.

So why is one fighter fighting at 135-140 division, and the other at 147 division?

And why is it that fighters at 135 can weigh-in at 147 come fight time?

Or in other words, why was Pac allowed to fight at 135...or Margarito who weighs like 160 pounds by fight time allowed to fight as a Welterweight?


So I wonder...If, they were to make new rules up could it change the face of boxing for the better. Not only to make it more fair for the fighters to face fighters their own weight, but for the safety of the fighters as well since we wouldn't have to have fighters draining themselves and trying to put back weight on for the fight. Or over-training themselves during the training camp to make weight. Remember Gatti vs. Gamache?

For example: We have Floyd and Pac, both weigh 149 pounds for their fights. 149 is closer to 147 so let's put them in the Welterweight class. They can lose two pounds.

Rules: A fighter must weigh-in at 147 one day before the fight or, 147 the day of the fight. If a Fighter is over the 147 limit by the next weigh-in, which will be 3 hours before the fight, he will be deducted money from his paycheck...unless, it is put in the contract for a 5 pound wiggle room. If that is the case, then anything over 5 pounds you are deducted money. And, if you are over that 5 pound limit and the opponent no longer once to fight you because of the unfair advantage and now since we have to cancel the fight...you are suspended from boxing for 1 year. I'll think about if I want to make it harsher to avoid what I just said. Maybe 2-3 years might kick their ass in gear to stay on weight.

This way, fighters will have to fight at their healthy weight. Because if they don't, one of two things will happen: One, if they don't make weight and are over the limit, they are out of work for the next 1-3 years. In this case, I'm for the 5 pound wiggle room. Two: If they have to over-train and drain themselves for the fight because they wanted an unfair advantage of fighting a smaller opponent, they will wind up like Oscar; dead by fight time.

It's the fighter’s risk. So what will he choose? Fighting at a healthy weight or taking the risk of showing up dead by fight time?





Add your thoughts and corrections.

I like your idea... In alot of Kickboxing organizations (Including the one I fought under) their are same day weigh ins. You get weighed in and then have a physical afterwards. There are usually 18-20 fighters on each card and everything seems to work pretty smoothly!!! Pros as well as amateur weigh in the same day. every once in a while a fight is scrapped because someone can't make weight, butour trainers monitor our weigh at two points (or our suppose to) 2 week mark and 1 week mark prior to the fight. As a athlete I always felt safer knowing that my opponent was physically the same weight as I was!!

[Benny Leonard]

Joey Gamache's case against NYSAC on after 9-year wait
BY MITCH ABRAMSON
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Monday, December 22nd 2008, 9:10 PM



For a brief moment, Joey Gamache was flying through space.

When he finally crashed down in the ring at Madison Square Garden nearly nine years ago, his retirement and the kernels of a lawsuit would be hatched.

Three judges and a trio of attorneys later, Gamache will finally get his day in court.

On Monday, Judge Melvin Schweitzer of the New York Court of Claims produced a 26-page decision, sending the civil case to trial and beginning the process of resolving a matter that has been shrouded in controversy throughout this decade.

Gamache contends that Arturo Gatti, his opponent for his Feb.26, 2000, bout, was allowed to weigh in over the agreed-upon weight limit of 141 pounds and that Gatti was given an unfair advantage in the ring.

The night of the bout, Gatti reportedly weighed 160 pounds, according to HBO scales, while Gamache, who made weight the day before, checked in at 145 pounds.

The result was inevitable.

Gamache was nearly decapitated in the second round, retired from the sport on his way back to the dressing room and was reported to have sustained permanent brain damage.

Shortly thereafter, Gamache filed a lawsuit against the New York State Athletic Commission, alleging fraud, breach of contract and negligence at the Feb.25 weigh-in.

Two of the causes were thrown out, while the negligence cause of action withstood.

"We're extremely pleased that by making this decision the court is saying loud and clear that the commission can and will be held responsible when they conduct themselves in a negligent manner that results in injuries to the fighters," said Gamache's attorney, Keith Sullivan. "They had a duty that day that when Joey weighed in at 141 pounds, that his opponent also weighed in at the same weight. It's disgraceful."

No trial date has been set, nor has compensation been discussed, but Sullivan expects the case to begin in February or March.

Gamache, 42, lives in Manhattan and works as a boxing trainer.

A year after Gamache's alleged incident at the weigh-in, Beethaeven Scottland was killed because of injuries incurred in the ring against George Khalid Jones at the U.S.S. Intrepid.

Sullivan described the New York State Commission back then as "a festering ground of political patronage with guys who didn't have the knowledge or skills to help the fighters."