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#11
Old 01-13-2011, 11:01 AM
katsidis
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If this is done in skills then Oscar should be higher and Floyd should be on there.
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#12
Old 01-13-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by katsidis View Post
If this is done in skills then Oscar should be higher and Floyd should be on there.
Floyd only had 4 fights at 135 he has no place in a Top 20 list at Lighweight.
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#13
Old 01-13-2011, 12:08 PM
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Floyd only had 4 fights at 135 he has no place in a Top 20 list at Lighweight.
Yeh but he did fight at lightweight and I said based on skills, not resume.
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#14
Old 01-13-2011, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by katsidis View Post
Yeh but he did fight at lightweight and I said based on skills, not resume.
Ye but he only had 4 fights at the weight,he didnt face an array of great fighters or different styles at 135,therefore its impossible to rank him in the top 20 of a division so rich in history
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#15
Old 01-13-2011, 09:13 PM
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I must disagree with people when they say Mosley was best at lightweight. I really think his best work was well and truly as a welter. He was always a little drained at lightweight and really wasn't a natural 135 guy and so he was usually fatigued and lethargic. Didn't have the same snap and combinations that he showed later on at 147.

If he had gone to 140 I think he would have been more comfortable and that might have been his best weight, but I always think his best performances were well and truly out of the LW division. He just didn't look the same on the whole at 135. Always struggled with his stamina, got tired and lethargic looking overall.

Anyway, I do agree that there are many better LW's than Mosley. The three after him should be above him in my opinion. Ken Buchanan should be above Mosley. His resume at 135 ****s on Mosley's with a monster dump. Armstrong's is the same, De Jesus is the same. Each of those guys should be above Mosley.

The top ten at lightweight is really hard. Truly the best division all time with WW and MW. I think the top three are definite; Gans, Duran and Leonard in whatever order. From there though you could change them up without much argument. Canzoneri and Ortiz could rightly be placed above Whitaker. I think Ortiz gets underrated these days. He genuinely has one of the greatest lightweight resumes of all time. His era was maybe the best lightweight era outside of Leonard's and he fought and usually beat everyone. Without Duran's dominance over the ATG lightweights Buchanan and De Jesus you could easily make a case that Ortiz should be higher. Hell, he should be higher than what he is anyway. I think out of all the guys on that list, he is the most underrated by far.

You want a lightweight resume? Check this out for size; Flash Elorde x 2, Johnny Bizarro, Joe Brown, Ismael Laguna x 2, Sugar Ramos x 2, Kenny Lane, then you have the many non title fights like Dave Charnley, Battling Torres, Cisco Andrade etc that he won. His only losses were to lightweight greats like Buchanan, Kenny Lane, Laguna. Only Buchanan could stop him because he was past his best.

He unified the division, made ten defenses over two reigns. That's the ****! What a resume! Then you have his win over ATG Duilo Loi, along with Kenny Lane and Battling Torres at 140 too. Not that it should affect his standing at lightweight.

Yeah...Ortiz huh? Great fighter.

Last edited by BennyST; 01-13-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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#16
Old 01-14-2011, 06:57 AM
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Is Mosley so high because he beat De La Hoya at welterweight? Because his reign at lightweight was not very special. He was impressive but his opposition wasn't.
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#17
Old 01-14-2011, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
You want a lightweight resume? Check this out for size; Flash Elorde x 2, Johnny Bizarro, Joe Brown, Ismael Laguna x 2, Sugar Ramos x 2, Kenny Lane, then you have the many non title fights like Dave Charnley, Battling Torres, Cisco Andrade etc that he won. His only losses were to lightweight greats like Buchanan, Kenny Lane, Laguna. Only Buchanan could stop him because he was past his best.

He unified the division, made ten defenses over two reigns. That's the ****! What a resume! Then you have his win over ATG Duilo Loi, along with Kenny Lane and Battling Torres at 140 too. Not that it should affect his standing at lightweight.

Yeah...Ortiz huh? Great fighter.
I saw that Ortiz Charley fight, if memory serves it was put on to close Harringay Arena which was a great old venue where I was lucky enough to see a lot of famous fighters. Also saw Charnley lose to Brown, 2nd time. If Ortiz and Brown are 6 and 7 then It would be interesting to see where Charnley rates, they didn't beat him by much.
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#18
Old 01-14-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
I must disagree with people when they say Mosley was best at lightweight. I really think his best work was well and truly as a welter. He was always a little drained at lightweight and really wasn't a natural 135 guy and so he was usually fatigued and lethargic. Didn't have the same snap and combinations that he showed later on at 147.

If he had gone to 140 I think he would have been more comfortable and that might have been his best weight, but I always think his best performances were well and truly out of the LW division. He just didn't look the same on the whole at 135. Always struggled with his stamina, got tired and lethargic looking overall.

Anyway, I do agree that there are many better LW's than Mosley. The three after him should be above him in my opinion. Ken Buchanan should be above Mosley. His resume at 135 ****s on Mosley's with a monster dump. Armstrong's is the same, De Jesus is the same. Each of those guys should be above Mosley.

The top ten at lightweight is really hard. Truly the best division all time with WW and MW. I think the top three are definite; Gans, Duran and Leonard in whatever order. From there though you could change them up without much argument. Canzoneri and Ortiz could rightly be placed above Whitaker. I think Ortiz gets underrated these days. He genuinely has one of the greatest lightweight resumes of all time. His era was maybe the best lightweight era outside of Leonard's and he fought and usually beat everyone. Without Duran's dominance over the ATG lightweights Buchanan and De Jesus you could easily make a case that Ortiz should be higher. Hell, he should be higher than what he is anyway. I think out of all the guys on that list, he is the most underrated by far.

You want a lightweight resume? Check this out for size; Flash Elorde x 2, Johnny Bizarro, Joe Brown, Ismael Laguna x 2, Sugar Ramos x 2, Kenny Lane, then you have the many non title fights like Dave Charnley, Battling Torres, Cisco Andrade etc that he won. His only losses were to lightweight greats like Buchanan, Kenny Lane, Laguna. Only Buchanan could stop him because he was past his best.

He unified the division, made ten defenses over two reigns. That's the ****! What a resume! Then you have his win over ATG Duilo Loi, along with Kenny Lane and Battling Torres at 140 too. Not that it should affect his standing at lightweight.

Yeah...Ortiz huh? Great fighter.
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#19
Old 01-14-2011, 11:21 AM
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No mention of Jack Blackburn?
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#20
Old 09-25-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Perfect Plex View Post
In 2001
1.Roberto Duran
2.Benny Leonard
3.Pernell Whitaker
4.Joe Gans
5.Ike Williams
6.Joe Brown
7.Carlos Ortiz
8.Tony Canzoneri
9.Bob Montgomery
10.Beau Jack
11.Lou Ambers
12.Freddie Welsh
13.Shane Mosley
14.Henry Armstrong
15.Esteban De Jesus
16.Ken Buchanan
17.Jack McAuliffe
18.Ismael Laguna
19.Ad Wolgast
20.Oscar De La Hoya
No Battling Nelson ??????.... and HOW do they forget McFarland ?????...... Mandell ????
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