Bookmark Website  | Free Registration  | The Team
Boxing Champions |  Boxing Schedule |  Boxing Video  |  Boxing History   |  Pound For Pound  | Lounge  | The Wire |  Audio  | Arcade

Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History
Reply
Thread Navigation

#1
Old 01-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Joey Giardello
#1 Carlos Monzon Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,274
Rep Power: 8 Joey Giardello has a spectacular aura aboutJoey Giardello has a spectacular aura aboutJoey Giardello has a spectacular aura about
Points: 470,809.02
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 470,809.02
Default Can you make a argument for Marcel Cerden being the greatest ever european fighter?

I rate cerden very highly, i think he has a good argument to be europe's best, plus i think jimmy wilde is very over rated who alot of experts rate as the best. Your thoughts?
Reply With Quote
Joey Giardello is offline
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
#2
Old 01-09-2011, 12:37 AM
D-MiZe
Iron lungs
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: England
Posts: 29,899
Blog Entries: 7
Rep Power: 100 D-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond reputeD-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 4,501,295,900.34
Bank: 72,033,354,643,735.50
Total Points: 72,037,855,939,635.84
'cause it's going to piss pour! - *Boss Lady* for when I am around. ;) - *Boss Lady* Best chat up line in a gift and or message on Boxingscene. - *Boss Lady* Because you are just so charming. &lt;3333 - *Boss Lady* You haven't been around ... batteries are now dead. - *Boss Lady* 
I read your manual, changed the batteries and made a mess. Ooops :) - *Boss Lady* Merry Christmas - Flab Happy new year! - Toney Loc :kiss: - *Boss Lady* Happy Easter babe :kiss: - Bossy 
25k Posts! :kiss: - Bossy For finishing 3rd in Season 2 of The Predictorship Challenge - D4thincarnation Keeping the &quot;Predictorship Challenge&quot; alive. - D4thincarnation The Predictorship Challenge Champion Season 3 - D4thincarnation Happy holidays bro! - led* 
have a safe and Happy New Years bro! :fing02: - jose830 don't get to comfortable with this around your neck, it's going to be taken. - TartanSoldier cause you have janes toney as an avy and cause i cant finish this 6 pack - AyoMaDu Some great posts - jas genius predictions! - jas 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - ЯiZО AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - GetSumBrah Hepatitis C - _PlaT_NuM_ Autism - The Scientist Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - ??? 
Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - siablo14 Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - mangler Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Loccy Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr449 Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - jazluvr 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Loccy Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Loccy Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - The Gully Gad Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - jazluvr 
Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - jazluvr Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - jazluvr Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - 'Sugar' Freddi Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - iBreakbeat Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - iBreakbeat 
Send a message via MSN to D-MiZe
Default

Why do you believe Wilde is very overrated?
Reply With Quote
D-MiZe is offline
#3
Old 01-09-2011, 07:23 AM
Barn
TheTartanSoldier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 9,850
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 47 Barn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 783,911,547,611.76
Bank: 536,265,311,476,133.50
Total Points: 537,049,223,023,745.25
Keep up the top notch vids - JAB5239 Merry Crimbo! - The Surgeon To another of a select group of real boxing fans who really know their boxing history! - Terry A Your 4000th post and you quoted me, I'm honoured! Happy 4k :wave: - *Boss Lady* 4 the uploads! - chiguy91 
Congrats on 5K solid KO's.. - !! AI-Holmes!! For you epic break down of Oreo's, and the Mayan calendar. lmaooooooooo - Sweet Pea 50 well deserved - the collector For the massive amount of points given - MindBat Merry X-mas Lad! Have a good un! - The Surgeon 
Happy New Year - Freedom. You're going to need it to beat me. - D-MiZe victory is sweet , rigotard and proud!! - HUGH JASS Rigonation badge of honor! - dan_cov your first post in the weed thread barn! , i know you don't smoke , keep it that way young one!! - HUGH JASS 
Happy birthday! Hope you have a good one. - dan_cov Boxingscene Chat room :fing02: - jose830 what up homie...just incase I want you to know I had nothing to do with that thread title change that's your thread bro - -jose- :love: - -jose- For the help buddy - Badzi87 
Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - NChristo Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo Childhood Cancer - NChristo Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - NChristo Hepatitis C - NChristo 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - NChristo Male Breast Cancer - Pregnancy Loss - Infant Loss - Sudden Infant Death - NChristo Autism - NChristo Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - NChristo 
Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - NChristo Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - NChristo Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - NChristo Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - NChristo World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - arraamis 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - chiguy91 Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - codey Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - codey Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - codey Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demise View Post
Why do you believe Wilde is very overrated?
I was about to ask the same thing!
Reply With Quote
Barn is offline
#4
Old 01-09-2011, 07:23 AM
mickey malone
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Thailand
Age: 50
Posts: 4,245
Rep Power: 15 mickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,227,779.55
Bank: 2,238,704,061.32
Total Points: 2,248,931,840.87
1000 posts right around the bend...congrats! - JAB5239 For bringing up Schmeling's classy actions! - poet682006 Nothing But Respect For You Mate - 0Rooster4Life0 To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage For fighting the Wanker Snopkins - HaglerSteelChin 
Well deserved. - Barnburner you need this for floyd - Weltschmerz kick this old butt hurt faqqot - Weltschmerz 
Default

It could be argued that he wasn't even the best fighter to come out of France, let alone Europe.. I'd say Georges Carpentier slightly exceeds Cerdan in terms of lifetime achievement..
Cerdan's title win against Zale was as brutal a fight you'll ever see, with Cerdan powering into him like a terminator on steroids, but i think it's fair to say that the 'man of steel' had seen better days by then..
Marcel then lost the title to Jake LaMotta.. The fight was fairly even until around mid-way when Cerdan tore is rotator-cuff, and by the 10th was unable to defend himself against the brawling LaMotta.
Had he not been tragically killed in a plane crash while travelling for the rematch, and had he won it, i think we could be talking about Cerdan as possibly the finest European fighter of all time..
Reply With Quote
mickey malone is offline
#5
Old 01-09-2011, 07:29 AM
Barn
TheTartanSoldier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 9,850
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 47 Barn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond reputeBarn has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 783,911,547,611.76
Bank: 536,265,311,476,133.50
Total Points: 537,049,223,023,745.25
Keep up the top notch vids - JAB5239 Merry Crimbo! - The Surgeon To another of a select group of real boxing fans who really know their boxing history! - Terry A Your 4000th post and you quoted me, I'm honoured! Happy 4k :wave: - *Boss Lady* 4 the uploads! - chiguy91 
Congrats on 5K solid KO's.. - !! AI-Holmes!! For you epic break down of Oreo's, and the Mayan calendar. lmaooooooooo - Sweet Pea 50 well deserved - the collector For the massive amount of points given - MindBat Merry X-mas Lad! Have a good un! - The Surgeon 
Happy New Year - Freedom. You're going to need it to beat me. - D-MiZe victory is sweet , rigotard and proud!! - HUGH JASS Rigonation badge of honor! - dan_cov your first post in the weed thread barn! , i know you don't smoke , keep it that way young one!! - HUGH JASS 
Happy birthday! Hope you have a good one. - dan_cov Boxingscene Chat room :fing02: - jose830 what up homie...just incase I want you to know I had nothing to do with that thread title change that's your thread bro - -jose- :love: - -jose- For the help buddy - Badzi87 
Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - NChristo Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo Childhood Cancer - NChristo Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - NChristo Hepatitis C - NChristo 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - NChristo Male Breast Cancer - Pregnancy Loss - Infant Loss - Sudden Infant Death - NChristo Autism - NChristo Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - NChristo 
Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - NChristo Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - NChristo Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - NChristo Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - NChristo World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - arraamis 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - chiguy91 Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - codey Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - codey Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - codey Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha 
Default

I see it like this
1. Wilde
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Cerdan

So yes anyone in the Top 5 could have an arguement but, I think the two fighters named above him surpass his achievments with Fitzsimmons winning titles in 3 weight classes and Wilde fighting opponents much heavier than himself almost constantly and still remaining on top.
Reply With Quote
Barn is offline
#6
Old 01-09-2011, 05:09 PM
Kid McCoy
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,142
Rep Power: 10 Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond reputeKid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 30,040,243.01
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 30,040,243.01
You know boxers, Kid!  Good writing style also! - Terry A To one of the wisest and most knowledgable posters on this site. - JAB5239 for your excellent contributions here - Scott9945 To another one of the very best members here - Terry A 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
It could be argued that he wasn't even the best fighter to come out of France, let alone Europe.. I'd say Georges Carpentier slightly exceeds Cerdan in terms of lifetime achievement..
I was thinking Marcel Thil, a very under-appreciated fighter who imo was at least on a par with Cerdan.

As for Cerdan if he'd gone to America earlier we'd have a better guage on how good he was. As it is, going life and death three times with an ordinary fighter like Graziano is a good indicator of Zale's level when Cerdan got to him, although Georgie Abrams (who gave Sugar Ray Robinson a tough fight a few months later) was a top win and an aging but still tough Holman Williams is not to be sniffed at. I would say that Wilde and Fitz surpass him, and maybe the likes of Kid Lewis and Thil do too.
Reply With Quote
Kid McCoy is offline
#7
Old 01-10-2011, 03:27 AM
sonnyboyx2
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 4,373
Rep Power: 15 sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond reputesonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 84,792,887.98
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 84,792,887.98
Gift for Green - HaglerSteelChin Illiterate troll of the month award. - Jim Jeffries for being a cool poster in history section - led Cool poster award - -Lightsout- Like reading your posts, funny too.  Good job, keep it up. - -D33Pwaters- 
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - Demise Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - tanibanana 
Default

Cerdan was brilliant and a good case can be made for him
Reply With Quote
sonnyboyx2 is offline
#8
Old 01-10-2011, 01:20 PM
mickey malone
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Thailand
Age: 50
Posts: 4,245
Rep Power: 15 mickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond reputemickey malone has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,227,779.55
Bank: 2,238,704,061.32
Total Points: 2,248,931,840.87
1000 posts right around the bend...congrats! - JAB5239 For bringing up Schmeling's classy actions! - poet682006 Nothing But Respect For You Mate - 0Rooster4Life0 To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage For fighting the Wanker Snopkins - HaglerSteelChin 
Well deserved. - Barnburner you need this for floyd - Weltschmerz kick this old butt hurt faqqot - Weltschmerz 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid McCoy View Post
I was thinking Marcel Thil, a very under-appreciated fighter who imo was at least on a par with Cerdan.

As for Cerdan if he'd gone to America earlier we'd have a better guage on how good he was. As it is, going life and death three times with an ordinary fighter like Graziano is a good indicator of Zale's level when Cerdan got to him, although Georgie Abrams (who gave Sugar Ray Robinson a tough fight a few months later) was a top win and an aging but still tough Holman Williams is not to be sniffed at. I would say that Wilde and Fitz surpass him, and maybe the likes of Kid Lewis and Thil do too.
Agreed.. Thil was a very underrrated fighter who like Cerdan, briefly held the middleweight title.
Reply With Quote
mickey malone is offline
#9
Old 01-10-2011, 03:28 PM
GJC
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,957
Rep Power: 14 GJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond reputeGJC has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,039,796.31
Bank: 1,020,399.65
Total Points: 2,060,195.96
To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage good poster - Counter right Excellent Poster. - Barnburner A cold pint for a knowlegeable old bastard - The Surgeon Super-Poster-- from McG - McGoorty 
You look like you need a proper DRINK - McGoorty This stuff should help the faculties - McGoorty Rest in peace old friend! - JAB5239 
Default

Don't agree Wilde is over rated but I do think Cerdan is under rated and certainly bears comparison with Europe's best. Much as I'd like to I don't really count Fitz as European.
Cerdan really got screwed by the war more than most as it stopped him getting to the states when he was at his peak. You need to remember 1st he had to get to France then he had to get to the States. Great great fighter.

Last edited by GJC; 01-10-2011 at 03:28 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
GJC is offline
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
arguement, cerden, ecer, european, fighter?, greatest, make, marcel

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Privacy Policy - Submit News - Feedback - Site Map - Advertise with Us

Copyright 2003-2013 BoxingScene LLC All rights reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.