Bookmark Website  | Free Registration  | The Team
Boxing Champions |  Boxing Schedule |  Boxing Video  |  Boxing History   |  Pound For Pound  | Lounge  | The Wire |  Audio  | Arcade

Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History
Reply
Thread Navigation

#1
Old 01-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Joey Giardello
#1 Carlos Monzon Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,274
Rep Power: 9 Joey Giardello has a spectacular aura about Joey Giardello has a spectacular aura about Joey Giardello has a spectacular aura about
Points: 515,354.02
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 515,354.02
Default Can you make a argument for Marcel Cerden being the greatest ever european fighter?

I rate cerden very highly, i think he has a good argument to be europe's best, plus i think jimmy wilde is very over rated who alot of experts rate as the best. Your thoughts?
Reply With Quote
Joey Giardello is offline
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
#2
Old 01-09-2011, 12:37 AM
D-MiZe
Iron lungs
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: England
Posts: 30,545
Blog Entries: 7
Rep Power: 107 D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute D-MiZe has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 903,402,116,600.72
Bank: 580,591,812,662,962.25
Total Points: 581,495,214,779,563.00
for when I am around. ;) - *Boss Lady*  Best chat up line in a gift and or message on Boxingscene. - *Boss Lady*  Because you are just so charming. &lt;3333 - *Boss Lady*  You haven't been around ... batteries are now dead. - *Boss Lady*  I read your manual, changed the batteries and made a mess. Ooops :) - *Boss Lady* 
Merry Christmas - Flab  Happy new year! - Toney Loc  :kiss: - *Boss Lady*  Happy Easter babe :kiss: - Bossy  25k Posts! :kiss: - Bossy 
For finishing 3rd in Season 2 of The Predictorship Challenge - D4thincarnation  Keeping the &quot;Predictorship Challenge&quot; alive. - D4thincarnation  The Predictorship Challenge Champion Season 3 - D4thincarnation  Happy holidays bro! - led*  have a safe and Happy New Years bro! :fing02: - jose830 
don't get to comfortable with this around your neck, it's going to be taken. - TartanSoldier  cause you have janes toney as an avy and cause i cant finish this 6 pack - AyoMaDu  Some great posts - jas  genius predictions! - jas  Happy New Year.. - !! AI-Holmes!! 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - ЯiZО  AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - GetSumBrah  Hepatitis C - _PlaT_NuM_  Autism - The Scientist  Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - ??? 
Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - siablo14  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - mangler  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Loccy  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr449  Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - jazluvr 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Loccy  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Loccy  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - The Gully Gad  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr  Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - jazluvr 
Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - jazluvr  Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - jazluvr  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - 'Sugar' Freddi  Alzheimer's - Crohn's & Colitis - Cystic Fibrosis - Domestic Violence - Fibromyalgia - Leimyosarcoma - Lupus - iBreakbeat  Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - iBreakbeat 
Send a message via MSN to D-MiZe
Default

Why do you believe Wilde is very overrated?
Reply With Quote
D-MiZe is offline
#3
Old 01-09-2011, 07:23 AM
Barn
TheTartanSoldier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Scotland
Age: 19
Posts: 10,358
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 53 Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 35,983,912,143,883.98
Bank: 93,641,023,917,614.91
Total Points: 129,624,936,061,498.88
Top Bloke! - mickey malone  For your knowledge of boxing - sigrab jr  Hell of a poster, very generous - BigStereotype  the champ is here - New England  wisdom - House of Stone 
For generosity and top posts! - Sugarj  medal for your videos - New England  The Greatest Vid : Barney the Great - McGoorty  Keep up the top notch vids - JAB5239  To another of a select group of real boxing fans who really know their boxing history! - Terry A 
4 the uploads! - chiguy91  For you epic break down of Oreo's, and the Mayan calendar. lmaooooooooo - Sweet Pea 50  For the massive amount of points given - MindBat  You're going to need it to beat me. - D-MiZe  victory is sweet , rigotard and proud!! - HUGH JASS 
Rigonation badge of honor! - dan_cov  your first post in the weed thread barn! , i know you don't smoke , keep it that way young one!! - HUGH JASS  Boxingscene Chat room :fing02: - jose830  For the help buddy - Badzi87  You a Scot,Me a English and this lucky clover from Ireland.Best of luck m8. - HughGlass 
Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - NChristo  Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo  Childhood Cancer - NChristo  Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - NChristo  Hepatitis C - NChristo 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo  Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - NChristo  Male Breast Cancer - Pregnancy Loss - Infant Loss - Sudden Infant Death - NChristo  Autism - NChristo  Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - NChristo 
Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - NChristo  Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - NChristo  Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - NChristo  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - NChristo  World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - arraamis 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - chiguy91  Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - codey  Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - codey  Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - codey  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demise View Post
Why do you believe Wilde is very overrated?
I was about to ask the same thing!
Reply With Quote
Barn is offline
#4
Old 01-09-2011, 07:23 AM
mickey malone
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Thailand
Age: 51
Posts: 4,255
Rep Power: 16 mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,251,227.79
Bank: 2,839,218,056.23
Total Points: 2,849,469,284.02
1000 posts right around the bend...congrats! - JAB5239  For bringing up Schmeling's classy actions! - poet682006  Nothing But Respect For You Mate - 0Rooster4Life0  To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage  For fighting the Wanker Snopkins - HaglerSteelChin 
Well deserved. - Barnburner  you need this for floyd - Weltschmerz  kick this old butt hurt faqqot - Weltschmerz 
Default

It could be argued that he wasn't even the best fighter to come out of France, let alone Europe.. I'd say Georges Carpentier slightly exceeds Cerdan in terms of lifetime achievement..
Cerdan's title win against Zale was as brutal a fight you'll ever see, with Cerdan powering into him like a terminator on steroids, but i think it's fair to say that the 'man of steel' had seen better days by then..
Marcel then lost the title to Jake LaMotta.. The fight was fairly even until around mid-way when Cerdan tore is rotator-cuff, and by the 10th was unable to defend himself against the brawling LaMotta.
Had he not been tragically killed in a plane crash while travelling for the rematch, and had he won it, i think we could be talking about Cerdan as possibly the finest European fighter of all time..
Reply With Quote
mickey malone is offline
#5
Old 01-09-2011, 07:29 AM
Barn
TheTartanSoldier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Scotland
Age: 19
Posts: 10,358
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 53 Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute Barn has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 35,983,912,143,883.98
Bank: 93,641,023,917,614.91
Total Points: 129,624,936,061,498.88
Top Bloke! - mickey malone  For your knowledge of boxing - sigrab jr  Hell of a poster, very generous - BigStereotype  the champ is here - New England  wisdom - House of Stone 
For generosity and top posts! - Sugarj  medal for your videos - New England  The Greatest Vid : Barney the Great - McGoorty  Keep up the top notch vids - JAB5239  To another of a select group of real boxing fans who really know their boxing history! - Terry A 
4 the uploads! - chiguy91  For you epic break down of Oreo's, and the Mayan calendar. lmaooooooooo - Sweet Pea 50  For the massive amount of points given - MindBat  You're going to need it to beat me. - D-MiZe  victory is sweet , rigotard and proud!! - HUGH JASS 
Rigonation badge of honor! - dan_cov  your first post in the weed thread barn! , i know you don't smoke , keep it that way young one!! - HUGH JASS  Boxingscene Chat room :fing02: - jose830  For the help buddy - Badzi87  You a Scot,Me a English and this lucky clover from Ireland.Best of luck m8. - HughGlass 
Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - NChristo  Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo  Childhood Cancer - NChristo  Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - NChristo  Hepatitis C - NChristo 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo  Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - NChristo  Male Breast Cancer - Pregnancy Loss - Infant Loss - Sudden Infant Death - NChristo  Autism - NChristo  Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - NChristo 
Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - NChristo  Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - NChristo  Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - NChristo  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - NChristo  World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - arraamis 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - chiguy91  Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - codey  Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - codey  Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - codey  Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha 
Default

I see it like this
1. Wilde
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Cerdan

So yes anyone in the Top 5 could have an arguement but, I think the two fighters named above him surpass his achievments with Fitzsimmons winning titles in 3 weight classes and Wilde fighting opponents much heavier than himself almost constantly and still remaining on top.
Reply With Quote
Barn is offline
#6
Old 01-09-2011, 05:09 PM
Kid McCoy
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,142
Rep Power: 10 Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute Kid McCoy has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 30,040,737.01
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 30,040,737.01
You know boxers, Kid!  Good writing style also! - Terry A  To one of the wisest and most knowledgable posters on this site. - JAB5239  for your excellent contributions here - Scott9945  To another one of the very best members here - Terry A 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey malone View Post
It could be argued that he wasn't even the best fighter to come out of France, let alone Europe.. I'd say Georges Carpentier slightly exceeds Cerdan in terms of lifetime achievement..
I was thinking Marcel Thil, a very under-appreciated fighter who imo was at least on a par with Cerdan.

As for Cerdan if he'd gone to America earlier we'd have a better guage on how good he was. As it is, going life and death three times with an ordinary fighter like Graziano is a good indicator of Zale's level when Cerdan got to him, although Georgie Abrams (who gave Sugar Ray Robinson a tough fight a few months later) was a top win and an aging but still tough Holman Williams is not to be sniffed at. I would say that Wilde and Fitz surpass him, and maybe the likes of Kid Lewis and Thil do too.
Reply With Quote
Kid McCoy is offline
#7
Old 01-10-2011, 03:27 AM
sonnyboyx2
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 5,189
Rep Power: 18 sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute sonnyboyx2 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 84,937,693.57
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 84,937,693.57
Gift for Green - HaglerSteelChin  Illiterate troll of the month award. - Jim Jeffries  for being a cool poster in history section - led  Cool poster award - -Lightsout-  Like reading your posts, funny too.  Good job, keep it up. - -D33Pwaters- 
Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - Demise  Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - tanibanana 
Default

Cerdan was brilliant and a good case can be made for him
Reply With Quote
sonnyboyx2 is online now
#8
Old 01-10-2011, 01:20 PM
mickey malone
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Thailand
Age: 51
Posts: 4,255
Rep Power: 16 mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute mickey malone has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,251,227.79
Bank: 2,839,218,056.23
Total Points: 2,849,469,284.02
1000 posts right around the bend...congrats! - JAB5239  For bringing up Schmeling's classy actions! - poet682006  Nothing But Respect For You Mate - 0Rooster4Life0  To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage  For fighting the Wanker Snopkins - HaglerSteelChin 
Well deserved. - Barnburner  you need this for floyd - Weltschmerz  kick this old butt hurt faqqot - Weltschmerz 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid McCoy View Post
I was thinking Marcel Thil, a very under-appreciated fighter who imo was at least on a par with Cerdan.

As for Cerdan if he'd gone to America earlier we'd have a better guage on how good he was. As it is, going life and death three times with an ordinary fighter like Graziano is a good indicator of Zale's level when Cerdan got to him, although Georgie Abrams (who gave Sugar Ray Robinson a tough fight a few months later) was a top win and an aging but still tough Holman Williams is not to be sniffed at. I would say that Wilde and Fitz surpass him, and maybe the likes of Kid Lewis and Thil do too.
Agreed.. Thil was a very underrrated fighter who like Cerdan, briefly held the middleweight title.
Reply With Quote
mickey malone is offline
#9
Old 01-10-2011, 03:28 PM
GJC
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,957
Rep Power: 16 GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute GJC has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,043,048.31
Bank: 1,020,399.65
Total Points: 2,063,447.96
To a fellow boxing historian - Stoppage  good poster - Counter right  Excellent Poster. - Barnburner  A cold pint for a knowlegeable old bastard - The Surgeon  Super-Poster-- from McG - McGoorty 
You look like you need a proper DRINK - McGoorty  This stuff should help the faculties - McGoorty  Rest in peace old friend! - JAB5239 
Default

Don't agree Wilde is over rated but I do think Cerdan is under rated and certainly bears comparison with Europe's best. Much as I'd like to I don't really count Fitz as European.
Cerdan really got screwed by the war more than most as it stopped him getting to the states when he was at his peak. You need to remember 1st he had to get to France then he had to get to the States. Great great fighter.

Last edited by GJC; 01-10-2011 at 03:28 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
GJC is offline
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
arguement , cerden , ecer , european , fighter? , greatest , make , marcel

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Privacy Policy - Submit News - Feedback - Site Map - Advertise with Us

Copyright 2003-2014 BoxingScene LLC All rights reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:01 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.