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#121
Old 01-06-2011, 09:44 AM
RubenSonny
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Originally Posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post
If Pavlik is a better victory than Margarito (quite debatable), it sure ain't by much.

Williams (& the manner of the win), yes, that's a better victory than Clottey (which itself is solid enough), but when you factor in Pacquiao's weight-jumping & the size he continues to give up, it tilts it back towards being pretty even. If Martinez were beating guys of Pavlik & Williams' calibre at, say, Light-Heavyweight, it would be closer to what Pacquiao's doing, & I could see then how he would be a shoo-in for FOTY. As it stands, I cannot understand the view it's Martinez or nothing.
The fact is Margarito hasn't put on a world class performance since 08 and Clottey had never beaten anyone relevant.
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#122
Old 01-06-2011, 09:49 AM
Wild Blue Yonda
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Originally Posted by RubenSonny View Post
The fact is Margarito hasn't put on a world class performance since 08 and Clottey had never beaten anyone relevant.
Pavlik's last World-class performance? Whaddaya know, that was also in 2008, when he out-pointed Jermain Taylor.

Clottey hasn't, but that's pretty misleading. He's a top-5 147lber. (or, at the bare minimum, was) & a very legitimate challenge to almost any natural Welter out there. For Pacquiao to come up & beat him with room to spare is no joke.
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#123
Old 01-06-2011, 09:56 AM
RubenSonny
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Originally Posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post
Pavlik's last World-class performance? Whaddaya know, that was also in 2008, when he out-pointed Jermain Taylor.

Clottey hasn't, but that's pretty misleading. He's a top-5 147lber. (or, at the bare minimum, was) & a very legitimate challenge to almost any natural Welter out there. For Pacquiao to come up & beat him with room to spare is no joke.
Thats a fair point, but its mostly the accomplishment of becoming the "man", Clottey is a good WW and simply never does enough to win and is outside the elite, the Paul Williams win was much superior thats plain to see.
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#124
Old 01-06-2011, 10:00 AM
Wild Blue Yonda
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Originally Posted by RubenSonny View Post
Thats a fair point, but its mostly the accomplishment of becoming the "man", Clottey is a good WW and simply never does enough to win and is outside the elite, the Paul Williams win was much superior thats plain to see.
It's plain, as I said, if you're comparing them outright without factoring in Pacquiao's continued climb in weight. That shouldn't be done.
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#125
Old 01-06-2011, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post
It's plain, as I said, if you're comparing them outright without factoring in Pacquiao's continued climb in weight. That shouldn't be done.
Who said I'm not factoring his weight climb? you give Pac credit on the fact that he was not in a conversation with these guys at one time but the same can be said for Martinez, no?
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#126
Old 01-06-2011, 10:22 AM
CarlosG815
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Originally Posted by Wild Blue Yonda View Post
Pavlik's last World-class performance? Whaddaya know, that was also in 2008, when he out-pointed Jermain Taylor.

Clottey hasn't, but that's pretty misleading. He's a top-5 147lber. (or, at the bare minimum, was) & a very legitimate challenge to almost any natural Welter out there. For Pacquiao to come up & beat him with room to spare is no joke.
I disagree. Clottey may have been ranked top 5 but he is not a top 5 ww and at this point in his career he is nothing but a human punching bag. He didn't even have his trainer in the states, instead he had a locksmith training him, and Pacquiao had Freddie Roach. Joshua Clottey never stood a chance and his career was over before that fight and I would venture to say we will never see another good performance out of him again. Poorly trained, past injuries, getting older, etc... He is done and was done before he even fought Pacquiao. To me that win was far from impressive. I just can not understand why the hell that fight happened. It was like Clottey just came out of nowhere and people just accepted him as a legitimate contender.

2010 was a terrible year for Manny Pacquiao.

I do believe that Martinez deserves FOTY. Marquez had a great year with win's over Diaz and a KO over Katsidis. Those were great fights and were more entertaining and impressive than either of Pacquiao's mismatches.
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#127
Old 01-06-2011, 10:25 AM
CarlosG815
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You guys are totally ignoring the fact that Martinez put Paul Williams, who was without question a top 3 p4p guy, into a 30 second coma. That win is without question the biggest shocker of the year and is worthy of much praise. I wanted Sergio to win but I honestly thought that Paul would outpoint him. I can't imagine many of you believed that Paul would go down so easily but Sergio was in control of the entire fight and all but decapitated Paul.

BennyST said it best in this post. There is nothing more to be said. Pacquiao did what was expected, anything less would have been shocking, yet Martinez shocked us all in his winning performances.
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#128
Old 01-06-2011, 10:58 AM
Holtol
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Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
You guys are totally ignoring the fact that Martinez put Paul Williams, who was without question a top 3 p4p guy, into a 30 second coma. That win is without question the biggest shocker of the year and is worthy of much praise. I wanted Sergio to win but I honestly thought that Paul would outpoint him. I can't imagine many of you believed that Paul would go down so easily but Sergio was in control of the entire fight and all but decapitated Paul.

BennyST said it best in this post. There is nothing more to be said. Pacquiao did what was expected, anything less would have been shocking, yet Martinez shocked us all in his winning performances.
Based on p4p Sergio should get FOTY, personaly I don't buy into p4p. I don't really think Sergio knocked out the 3rd best guy in boxing. But if Ring Magazine gives the FOTY to Paquiao it really shi**s on their p4p lists.
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#129
Old 01-06-2011, 11:00 AM
CarlosG815
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Based on p4p Sergio should get FOTY, personaly I don't buy into p4p. I don't really think Sergio knocked out the 3rd best guy in boxing. But if Ring Magazine gives the FOTY to Paquiao it really shi**s on their p4p lists.
Who would you rank higher than Paul Williams at the time?
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#130
Old 01-06-2011, 11:29 AM
Holtol
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Who would you rank higher than Paul Williams at the time?
I don't really make p4p lists. I never really thought Williams was vastly superior to Margarito, Quintana, Cintron, Martinez.

He was ranked higher on p4p lists though. If the Ring wants people to take them seriously they should give fighter of the year to Martinez.
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