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#21
Old 09-06-2010, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
His stamina was poor because Frazier was beating the hell out of him. Why wasn't his stamina a problem in the Bonavena fight? Did it suddenly regress for Frazier?

Show me one bit of proof that Ali's footwork wouldn't have deteriorated had he not ban banned? It is a FACT that ali had not been moving as much and sitting down on his punches more in his last 3 fights before being banned. If you don't believe this than go and WATCH the fights for proof.
He looked like **** against Bonavena compared to his usual self, and obviously Frazier is a more superior fighter to Bonavena.

Also, there Frazier wasn't "beating the hell out of him", or else it wouldn't have been such a close fight. I, along with many others (including HBO's Larry Merchant), scored it for Ali.

Proof of his footwork in his last 3 fights before being banned? Okay:

1) Cleveland Williams - His footwork in this fight was unbelievable

2) Ernie Terrell - Kind of hard to marvel your footwork when you're opponent is moving forward a lot

3) Zora Folley - Folley was a pretty stationary opponent.

Congratulations, you just owned yourself by saying Ali didn't have his usual good footwork in the Williams fight.

And you're the guy who's crying like a little girl to become a mod? Ha. You don't even know what you're talking about when you write.
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#22
Old 09-06-2010, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Draw View Post
He looked like **** against Bonavena compared to his usual self, and obviously Frazier is a more superior fighter to Bonavena.
Whats his usual self? You have no idea how he would have looked had he not been banned.

Quote:
Also, there Frazier wasn't "beating the hell out of him", or else it wouldn't have been such a close fight. I, along with many others (including HBO's Larry Merchant), scored it for Ali.
Ali was clearly the beaten fighter and even he knew it.

Quote:
Proof of his footwork in his last 3 fights before being banned? Okay:

1) Cleveland Williams - His footwork in this fight was unbelievable
Good footwork against a literal and figuratively shot fighter.

Quote:
2) Ernie Terrell - Kind of hard to marvel your footwork when you're opponent is moving forward a lot
Really? Thats when great movers do some of their best footwork. see Ali vs Liston for proof.
Quote:
3) Zora Folley - Folley was a pretty stationary opponent.
So what does that prove? Fact is Ali was sitting down on his punches more.

Quote:
Congratulations, you just owned yourself by saying Ali didn't have his usual good footwork in the Williams fight.
Really, where did I say that at all? I said Ali was sitting down on his punches more. Here is the quote in case you forgot. "It is a FACT that ali had not been moving as much and sitting down on his punches more in his last 3 fights before being banned. If you don't believe this than go and WATCH the fights for proof." was Ali not sitting down on his punches more against a tired old Williams?

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And you're the guy who's crying like a little girl to become a mod? Ha. You don't even know what you're talking about when you write.
And you're the guy who has been banned multiple times and will be again.
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#23
Old 09-06-2010, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
And you're the guy who has been banned multiple times and will be again.
Regarding Terrell, I meant to type "when your opponent isn't moving forward a lot". Just a typo, on my part. You can clearly see he was mostly a stationary target.

I'd quote and reply to your others points, but it's just too hard since YOU (the crybaby who wants to be a mod) don't even know how to quote properly like everyone else.

Ironic, isn't it? You're begging to have access to extra forum tools when you don't even know how to use the ones you already have. Especially something as simple as quoting.
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#24
Old 09-07-2010, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Draw View Post
Regarding Terrell, I meant to type "when your opponent isn't moving forward a lot". Just a typo, on my part. You can clearly see he was mostly a stationary target.
If Ali fought Louis the way he fought Terrell I believe Louis would win.

Quote:
I'd quote and reply to your others points, but it's just too hard since YOU (the crybaby who wants to be a mod) don't even know how to quote properly like everyone else.
So you're saying you aren't bright enough or you're to lazy? Truth is you simply don't have any logical answers.
Quote:
Ironic, isn't it? You're begging to have access to extra forum tools when you don't even know how to use the ones you already have. Especially something as simple as quoting.
When have I ever begged son? Volunteering and begging are two very different things. Maybe you should look up their definitions before running off at the mouth. Personally I don't care who moderates this section as long as they control the trolls like yourself. Im sure you'll be banned again shortly though, you simply aren't smart enough to avoid it.
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#25
Old 09-07-2010, 04:06 AM
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I don't believe Ali will "destroy" louis but I lean towards Ali in this match up because his qualities as a fighter, such as speed and especially footwork. These are problematic for Louis.
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#26
Old 09-07-2010, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ubuntufighter View Post
I don't believe Ali will "destroy" louis but I lean towards Ali in this match up because his qualities as a fighter, such as speed and especially footwork. These are problematic for Louis.

If Ali fought Louis the way he did the first Liston fight I think he wins. That is his best chance in my opinion. The man was great, but he made many, many mistakes that Louis would capitalize on as pointed out in the article I linked.
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#27
Old 09-07-2010, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post

If Ali fought Louis the way he did the first Liston fight I think he wins. That is his best chance in my opinion. The man was great, but he made many, many mistakes that Louis would capitalize on as pointed out in the article I linked.
When watching fights of Ali you can see his Unorthodox style and mistakes can be observed and his athletic ability compensates. Based on both their styles, I believe Louis finds it difficult to fight him. In addition Louis had weaknesses as a fighter which Ali would exploit. Ali would make Louis fight his fight (which he is capable) so I lean towards Ali.

I've come across that article before and while it gives some valid points, it has shortcomings assessing Ali as a fighter. It could've been more balanced as well. Thanks for posting it though.

Last edited by SonnyboyReturns; 09-07-2010 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:26 AM
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liston vs ali wouldnt be like ali vs louis.

though alis best bet would be to attack at louis the same as ali vs liston the results would be completly diffrent. louis was lighter and faster on his feet then liston, louis was a faster puncher making it harder to roll the punches, louis wouldnt give up after 7 round he would have stuck out the whole 15, and louis was a master of distance getting in and out of the clinch and not wasting his energy throwing punches that dont hit.

prime louis always destroy prime ali (pre and post draft).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubuntufighter View Post
When watching fights of Ali you can see his Unorthodox style and mistakes can be observed and his athletic ability compensates. Based on both their styles, I believe Louis finds it difficult to fight him. In addition Louis had weaknesses as a fighter which Ali would exploit. Ali would make Louis fight his fight (which he is capable) so I lean towards Ali.

I've come across that article before and while it gives some valid points, it has shortcomings assessing Ali as a fighter. It could've been more balanced as well. Thanks for posting it though.
This is fair enough. I can see the pro's and con's of both sides but lean towards Louis. I actually tired of this debate, been having it for years on here and other forums, but I feel the need sometimes to show people that win or lose this is no easy fight for Ali and logical arguments can be made for a Louis win. In the end though its all conjecture and we'll never actually know.
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