Champions who cleaned out their division avoiding no-one

[poet682006]

Originally Posted by CarlosG815

I am interested in finding out more on this step aside money issue, so why don't you go dig it up for me, son.

It was pretty much common knowledge at the time.....well talked about. I'm too damn tired to try and dig up the 411 tonight but if you hit up GreatA I wouldn't be surprised if he has it on-hand and doesn't have to look for it.

Poet

[Jim Jeffries]

Originally Posted by CarlosG815

I'm aware of the proper usage.

Whoever wrote that article is a bias Lewis nuthugger. Did you write it, JJ? Or maybe it was your boyfriends hellboy and shazam!.

Terrible, terrible article. I am interested in finding out more on this step aside money issue, so why don't you go dig it up for me, son.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The step aside money is common knowledge, find it yourself.

And the article was a piece bidding farewell to a top 10 ATG HW, so of course it was a little over the top. Still far superior to anything I've seen you write (though that's not saying much.)

[CarlosG815]

Originally Posted by poet682006

It was pretty much common knowledge at the time.....well talked about. I'm too damn tired to try and dig up the 411 tonight but if you hit up GreatA I wouldn't be surprised if he has it on-hand and doesn't have to look for it.

Poet

I thought there was much more to it though, that's why I'm interested in reading something in depth.

[Dynamite76]

Michael Spinks.

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

The question I would ask is how high were they rated and for how long? If Louis missed them while taking on other top contenders and they fell out of the rankings or were not consistently in the rankings I think we'd have to say he pretty much cleaned out his division.

Lem Franklin was the # 2 rated heavyweight contender in 1941. He was on a 19-0 (17ko) winning streak. He recently destroyed Abe Simon in 5 rounds. Instead of Louis granting Franklin a well deserved title shot, louis gave Simon a undeserving REMATCH for the title.


Elmer Ray was the # 1 heavyweight contender in 1946. He was on a 65-1 run the past 4 years including a defeat over # 2 rated Jersey Joe Walcott. He would go on to defeated a prime Ezzard Charles in 1947. It is a shame such a great fighter like Ray never got a title shot. Would he have defeated Louis? Highly Doubtful. But Ray did earn the right to challenge for the biggest prize in sports.

"...in doing so he made of Elmer Ray a modern Sam Langford. You remember the Boston Tar Baby. He was a guy heavyweight champion Jack Johnson dodged and dodged during the six years he held the title some three decades ago. Langford tried desperately to get a bout with the champ, but Johnson never would have a part of him. Louis is that way with Ray. It’s silly to say that Louis, the man who has made so many valiant defenses of the crown, is afraid of Elmer. But it is a fact that he won’t fight the burley puncher from Hastings, Florida."-Middlesboro Daily News, July 26, 1947



Lee Q Murray was a top 5 ranked heavyweight contender throughout the mid 1940s. He won the Interim Heavyweight Champion recognized by Maryland and Ohio commissions with a 8th round knockout victory over top rated Harry Bobo(Another big powerful ranked black fighter who may have deserved a shot in early 40s)


Cleveland Promoter Believes Murray Can Take Joe Louis


BY JACK CUDDY


NEW YORK, Dec. 7—(UP)—



Larry Atkins of Cleveland,
America's second ranking
prizefight promoter, believes
that Lee. Q. Murray, big Connecticut
negro, is the most dangerous potential threat to
Sgt. Joe Louis' heavyweight crown. "If the war wuz to end tomorrow,"says promoter Atkins, "I'd say the man most likely to lick Louis wuz Lee Q. Murray."
This Atkins' praise of Murray was so entirely unexpected
that a startled reporter inquired
of the visiting Cleveland entrepreneur
last night, "how come you boost, Murray, when he almost'ruined Jimmy Bivins,
your meal, ticket, last week?" Atkins, a youngish, broadshouldered, black-haired chap of 41, fixed the reporter with steely eyes, and remonstrated,
'In our Cleveland promotions, we have no meal tickets. We have cards. A Cleveland fighter is a card as long as he can lick anybody we bring in. When he loses to an outsider, the outsider becomes the card." In the case of Murray vs. "Card" Bivins of Cleveland, promoter Atkins was doubly
fortunate. Little Bivins won an unpopular 10-round decision
over Murray last Wednesday night, after Murray had the
Cleveland negro staggering about the ring and dripping with
gore. The fans booed the-decision so long, and so lustily that
a re-match was as necessary as if by royal command. They'll
tangle, again in late February — after both principals recover
from their wounds. Atkins, who in four short years changed Cleveland from
one of the country's worst fight cities into a promoter's paradise,
said, "I knew Murray was a good fighter before I matched
him'with Bivins. But during the first two rounds, I thought
Murray would ruin me. He never let loose with a punch.
Disgustedly, I left my seat at
the ringside, and walked to the
rear of the arena. But Murray
was just mouse-trapping his
man. He knew Bivins was a
cutie and he was sucking him
in. Bivins left himself open in
the third round, and Murray
hit him. Bivins rolled with that
right-hand punch to the chin;
but the force was so terrific
that Bivins wasn't the same for
the rest of the fight. This part still needs some cleaning up, as the background noise and whatnot on the paper registers as text when you copy off an old newspaper.
"Murray hit him so hard over
the left brow in the sixth round
that you could have stuck your
thumb in the cut; but Bivins is
not the duration heavyweight
.champ for nothing. He managed
to put-smark' Murray for the
distance; and I honestly thought he won the fight; although it.
didn't matter to me who won—
as I had Murray tied up on a contract, too."
Atkins, who drew" $360,000
with his Cleveland bouts'jn'1942,
and who has provided bouts
that drexv $413,000'this year, concluded,
"I don't .know whether
little Bivins, who '.weighs' only
about •• 187 ..pounds, or Murray, who has 200 on six. foot two.
frame, is 'the better fighter.
But Murray is the most' dangerous.
He's .the most" terrific
puncher I ever saw; he hits as
hard as. Louis. He's • still a little•
awkward —being, a converted'
Southpaw. But being a Convert-
ed Southpaw ' makes 'him': a
switch hitter, who .can, knock'
you dead with either'hand.'And he's only 23."
•Atkins, in New York on a business
trip, said it seemed
a dream that he — an under
study to Mike Jacobs — 'should
have the two best civilian
heavyweights in the world tied
up on contracts He hoped he
still had .a contract on Murray
.when Sergeant .Louis got out of
.the Army. .

[frankenfrank]

Mike Tyson
Marvin Hagler
Muhammad Ali
Carlos Monzon
George Foreman (first reign)
James Toney (160,168)
Julio Cesar Chavez
Michael Spinks (175)
Larry Holmes
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
luckily for Louis , Marciano and Holmes , they had weak divisions to clean

[General Zod]

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Marvin Hagler

I was told that Herol Graham was his WBA mandatory

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

James Toney (160,168)

He didn't fight Jackson at 160, nor did he unify with any of the other champions at 168

[frankenfrank]

Originally Posted by General Zod

I was told that Herol Graham was his WBA mandatory

but when ? maybe hagler had much more financially rewarding fight by that time ? he had superfights with hearns , duran and leonard as you know.

Originally Posted by General Zod

He didn't fight Jackson at 160, nor did he unify with any of the other champions at 168

toney's opposition besides the tiberi debacle at 160 , was very impressive , and you can not even blame it on his frequency of defenses , as he defended his title frequently . but it is interesting why he did not fight jackson tho. at 168 , against whom could he unify ? ottke ? eubank ? you know the stories surrounding them.

off topic : and whose dat ho in your avatar ?

[General Zod]

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

but when ? maybe hagler had much more financially rewarding fight by that time ? he had superfights with hearns , duran and leonard as you know.

It's a rumour I have heard from many different boxing fans, he was supposed to be Hagler's mandatory around the time of the Leonard fight. But I agree there were more financially rewarding fights out there for him

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

toney's opposition besides the tiberi debacle at 160 , was very impressive , and you can not even blame it on his frequency of defenses , as he defended his title frequently . but it is interesting why he did not fight jackson tho. at 168 , against whom could he unify ? ottke ? eubank ? you know the stories surrounding them.

At smw there was Frankie Liles, Michael Nunn, Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

off topic : and whose dat ho in your avatar ?

Shay Laren

[erikmorales]

Marvin Hagler
Both the Klitschkos, (if you dont include them not fighting eachother)
Carlos Monzon
Lennox lewis
Bernard Hopkins at MW (after jones left lol)
Joe louis
Rocky marciano