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#1
Old 02-26-2010, 03:34 AM
Sean Gillespie
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Default Dave Tate talking about the effects of steroids

Just finished watching a clip of Dave Tate from eliteFTS which, for those you who don't know, has been a powerlifter since his early teens and trained with the likes of Louie Simmons at Westside Barbell. Suffice to say he knows a thing or two not only about strength but also the effects of steriods on lifters, although I do not believe he himself has ever used (not that he looks down on it, he's neither for or against).

I'm paraphrasing here but an interesting observation he made about anabolic steriod use is that users have a hard time just walking around without being out of breath quickly. Why? Because anabolic steriods users fire their muscles more all the time - even under the most minimal load. Their muscles over compensate everything. Which is PERFECT if you have to do a short duration (less than 10 seconds), heavy load, explosive lift.

Anabolic users also train for much shorter periods of time with heavier loads compared to natural lifters because that's the only way they'll get any benefit. There's no benefit in submaximal loading and thus large amounts of time training. Their bodies are not capable of anything else because they've sacrificed any meaningful endurance for pure phosphogenic (and maybe a bit of anaerobic) strength.

So, if the above observations are an accurate representation of the effects and usefulness of anabolic steroid use, I've got 2 questions :

1) How are anabolic steroids useful to a boxer?

2) Given Paquiao's tremendous speed strength and endurance based work load, how can anyone point at him and say "steroid use"?

If anyone has any counter information on this, if this info is off base in anyway - post it here. I certainly do not claim to be an authority on the subject of anabolic steroids however this was an interesting and informed opinion I came across recently and thought it might be worth sharing.

The video in question can be found here
h**p://journal.crossfit.com/2009/06/dave-tate-sticking-points-technique-part-2.tpl
however it does require paid registration to grab.
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#2
Old 02-26-2010, 06:14 AM
ManniePhresh
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man they say hes been using epo for that super endurance through a higher red blood cell count not traditional steroids
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#3
Old 02-26-2010, 06:21 AM
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Most people here are ignorant about steroids and pretending to be drug experts. They don't know that steroids can cause more damage than good to a boxer.
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#4
Old 02-26-2010, 06:50 AM
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Some people here are so quick to judge. They would even give you arguments about steroids as if they were an expert on it.
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#5
Old 02-26-2010, 07:22 AM
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Sean Gillespie,I have talked to a personal trainer friend of mine about steroids and boxing and he says pretty well what you have written. However he says that if a boxer wanted to gain weight and strength steroids and HGH would assist in the building period where mass would be gained. If he were to then stop using gear and did a lot of rigorous boxing training which he says strips you down some of the mass gains would be lost but a lot would carried over and in his opinion for a boxer wanting to put on mass steroids and HGH would be of considerable help but would be detrimental close to the fight.
He says there are many other PEDs that can be used that would help a boxer and would be useful at different points in training and that a cheater won't be just looking to use one drug once he has crossed the line if he has access to drugs that will help him at different points in training. We are well past the basic steroid stage science wise , the science of PEDs is ahead of testing and getting increasingly sophisticated.
In his opinion a huge amount of top performers in sport are on some kind of gear at various points in training and the masking science is very advanced also . He can usually spot what they are on by noticing changes and there are give aways in the look. He does not follow boxing and does not know Pacman but strongly suspects Tiger Woods has been on various things at various points in his career.
He did say HGH would be great for a boxer,he called it the fountain of youth and said it toughened skin and strengthens ligaments and other benefits . I think he said a side affect is the head gets bigger. A few years ago I pretty sure he said something about it to me re Carl Lewis and the gaps between his teeth being a result of use of HGH before he was fully mature. Next time I see him I will ask more questions but he says drugs use is a very complex issue and the science behind it and masking is very advanced..

Last edited by John Hue; 02-26-2010 at 07:25 AM.
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#6
Old 02-27-2010, 09:51 PM
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Hey John,

Good points there. Definately right on the prevelance of drugs at the elite level in sport across the board.
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#7
Old 02-27-2010, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Gillespie View Post

So, if the above observations are an accurate representation of the effects and usefulness of anabolic steroid use, I've got 2 questions :

1) How are anabolic steroids useful to a boxer?

2) Given Paquiao's tremendous speed strength and endurance based work load, how can anyone point at him and say "steroid use"?
First I want to state that power lifting isn't the same as boxing. For him, he has no benefit from steroids other than lifting heavy weights for a short period of time because that was the sport he did. Powerlifting is lifting heavy weights for 2 seconds. That's why he said what he said.

1) It greatly improves your strength. Your muscles are alot stronger and therefore deliver a bigger punch.

2) Because of his recent performances. Look at all of his fights prior to going JWW. Against JMM, MAB, Morales, Solis etc. Pacquiao had power but not 1 punch KO power, he threw 100 punches to make you get hurt. He always had speed not debateable and his endurance wasn't exactly the best. Now look at him after turning JWW. He destroyed Hatton with 1 punch. Beat the **** out of ODLH (albeit he was more than likely drained). Then brutalized Cotto (I knew it would happen but whatever).


Steroids improve your body to whatever sport you are training. If you take steroids and your an Olympic Sprinter, guess what? Your not gonna lift a ton of weight and have no endurance. Your going to run as fast as lightning.

What happens when a boxer takes steroids? Rediculous power, speed, and endurance. All of what Pacquiao has. Why? Because that is the sport specific training for a boxer. So steroids will take those attributes to a whole nother level.



I'm not saying Pacquiao is on steroids. I just understand where Mayweather's camp is comming from. This whole thing wouldn't be a problem if Pacquiao would have agreed to take a steroid test. If he would have agreed, no one would think he was on steroids and Mayweather would look like he was a *****. But it didn't go that way and now Pacquiao looks like a bad guy.


Just an Nuetral World Order member making a unbiased assessment.
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#8
Old 02-27-2010, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Gillespie View Post
Just finished watching a clip of Dave Tate from eliteFTS which, for those you who don't know, has been a powerlifter since his early teens and trained with the likes of Louie Simmons at Westside Barbell. Suffice to say he knows a thing or two not only about strength but also the effects of steriods on lifters, although I do not believe he himself has ever used (not that he looks down on it, he's neither for or against).

I'm paraphrasing here but an interesting observation he made about anabolic steriod use is that users have a hard time just walking around without being out of breath quickly. Why? Because anabolic steriods users fire their muscles more all the time - even under the most minimal load. Their muscles over compensate everything. Which is PERFECT if you have to do a short duration (less than 10 seconds), heavy load, explosive lift.

Anabolic users also train for much shorter periods of time with heavier loads compared to natural lifters because that's the only way they'll get any benefit. There's no benefit in submaximal loading and thus large amounts of time training. Their bodies are not capable of anything else because they've sacrificed any meaningful endurance for pure phosphogenic (and maybe a bit of anaerobic) strength.

So, if the above observations are an accurate representation of the effects and usefulness of anabolic steroid use, I've got 2 questions :

1) How are anabolic steroids useful to a boxer?

2) Given Paquiao's tremendous speed strength and endurance based work load, how can anyone point at him and say "steroid use"?

If anyone has any counter information on this, if this info is off base in anyway - post it here. I certainly do not claim to be an authority on the subject of anabolic steroids however this was an interesting and informed opinion I came across recently and thought it might be worth sharing.

The video in question can be found here
h**p://journal.crossfit.com/2009/06/dave-tate-sticking-points-technique-part-2.tpl
however it does require paid registration to grab.
Pac ain't on steroids according to SR. and uncle Roger. He's on A-side-meth whatever the hell that is. It makes bullets bounce off your body or something like that ****. They've got proof ------------> wikipedia.
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#9
Old 02-27-2010, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcis_Scientia View Post
Pac ain't on steroids according to SR. and uncle Roger. He's on A-side-meth whatever the hell that is. It makes bullets bounce off your body or something like that ****. They've got proof ------------> wikipedia.
Professor Mayweather is one smart *****.
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#10
Old 02-27-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F l i c k e r View Post
First I want to state that power lifting isn't the same as boxing. For him, he has no benefit from steroids other than lifting heavy weights for a short period of time because that was the sport he did. Powerlifting is lifting heavy weights for 2 seconds. That's why he said what he said.

1) It greatly improves your strength. Your muscles are alot stronger and therefore deliver a bigger punch.

2) Because of his recent performances. Look at all of his fights prior to going JWW. Against JMM, MAB, Morales, Solis etc. Pacquiao had power but not 1 punch KO power, he threw 100 punches to make you get hurt. He always had speed not debateable and his endurance wasn't exactly the best. Now look at him after turning JWW. He destroyed Hatton with 1 punch. Beat the **** out of ODLH (albeit he was more than likely drained). Then brutalized Cotto (I knew it would happen but whatever).


Steroids improve your body to whatever sport you are training. If you take steroids and your an Olympic Sprinter, guess what? Your not gonna lift a ton of weight and have no endurance. Your going to run as fast as lightning.

What happens when a boxer takes steroids? Rediculous power, speed, and endurance. All of what Pacquiao has. Why? Because that is the sport specific training for a boxer. So steroids will take those attributes to a whole nother level.



I'm not saying Pacquiao is on steroids. I just understand where Mayweather's camp is comming from. This whole thing wouldn't be a problem if Pacquiao would have agreed to take a steroid test. If he would have agreed, no one would think he was on steroids and Mayweather would look like he was a *****. But it didn't go that way and now Pacquiao looks like a bad guy.


Just an Nuetral World Order member making a unbiased assessment.
Holy **** dude, people like you really piss me off. Pacquiao hit Hatton with 65 out of 105 , 62% power punches that fight. Here's compubox
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=19754
Not to mention the rest of your post is full of bullsht.
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