How is it possible for fighters to rehydrate 15-20lbs on fight night? - Page 3 - Boxing Forum
Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Non Stop Boxing

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-21-2010, 01:17 PM #21
Left Banned Tua Left Banned Tua is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Still in Big Poppa Pump's doghouse
Posts: 9,359
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
Left Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 117,650.92
Bank: 4,400,000.00
Total Points: 4,517,650.92
Morbidly obese Yank! - Plastic Geordie we can rebuild you - Jack D Ripper This account needs food - mangler fatten up a little - -veteran420- for when i piss on u - PensionKiller 
No Message - Akinapepemo No Message - Mr Jones Professional Pretzel - Loccy Eat more fruit, Fatman - El Pachuco Sig Sauer Cake - street bully jr 
Celtics! - -Ash- so much sarcasm desevers a medal - cleaner147 here hav a German Pretzel...lmo - cleaner147 ayan pre - peyk-peyk ito pa pre - peyk-peyk 
No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk For when newcastle win the league - Rocky... 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Makavelli Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Makavelli Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - Makavelli Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Makavelli Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - Makavelli 
Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - peyk-peyk Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - peyk-peyk Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - peyk-peyk Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - peyk-peyk Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - peyk-peyk 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoy MeYHeM View Post
That debacle has ??? all over it.. Honestly i may get flack for this but, I really think that **** was all staged..

He did take a huge risk because while dehydrated he fought, which is a much higher risk of brain damage..
was he dehydrated though?

i know some people say he didn't rehydrate 'til fight night even stating roach's comments about delahoya's arm and ivy marks.

don't know about that.

i remember he was around 147 weeks before the fight.

though that could have been for show and was fixed.
Left Banned Tua is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 02-21-2010, 01:17 PM #22
Verstyle Verstyle is offline
Future Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio Texas
Age: 32
Posts: 40,845
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Rep Power: 21567
Verstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond reputeVerstyle has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 78,900,000,677,731.34
Bank: 8,709,962,283,793.00
Total Points: 87,609,962,961,524.34
congrats!!! - kadyo Congrats on 38K posts Vers mah homie!!!!!!!! - Chief2ndzOnly! to the big homie - Larryx2011 great lounge poster - RINGG interesting/good threads man. - chiguy91 
for an atg poster - jazluvr For all your kindness and support - Lorily :lol1: that shyt ain't right and awkward thread - jose830 No Message - MELLY-MEL... Thanks bro - BulgariasFinest 
Welcome back bud - TBear Happy Holidays Verstyle.. - !! AI-Holmes!! No Message - TBear No Message - TBear No Message - TBear 
40,000 posts! :fing02: - jose830 4 d 40k - led* 40k son - MELLY-MEL... have a great time at the fight tomorrow night! - HUGH JASS good to see you around - -jose- 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post
well if you cut weight it'll be water you're cutting.

a high metabolism will actually help you in cutting weight.
When I cut it's usually real weight. I lose a lot of muscle. If I need to lose water weight it would be only 3 to 5 pounds.
Verstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:18 PM #23
AllEyesOpen AllEyesOpen is offline
Speech Cobra
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Miami
Age: 32
Posts: 5,955
Quoted: 313 Post(s)
Rep Power: 1468
AllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond reputeAllEyesOpen has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 138,278.58
Bank: 378,495,913,454.79
Total Points: 378,496,051,733.37
cheers! - led 
Default

Didn't Roach say he saw a drop of blood where the had rehydrated him via IV after the fight night weigh-in or something. Again I don't know much about the whole dehydrating thing but that sounds real stupid to me.
AllEyesOpen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:45 PM #24
Left Banned Tua Left Banned Tua is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Still in Big Poppa Pump's doghouse
Posts: 9,359
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
Left Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 117,650.92
Bank: 4,400,000.00
Total Points: 4,517,650.92
Morbidly obese Yank! - Plastic Geordie we can rebuild you - Jack D Ripper This account needs food - mangler fatten up a little - -veteran420- for when i piss on u - PensionKiller 
No Message - Akinapepemo No Message - Mr Jones Professional Pretzel - Loccy Eat more fruit, Fatman - El Pachuco Sig Sauer Cake - street bully jr 
Celtics! - -Ash- so much sarcasm desevers a medal - cleaner147 here hav a German Pretzel...lmo - cleaner147 ayan pre - peyk-peyk ito pa pre - peyk-peyk 
No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk For when newcastle win the league - Rocky... 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Makavelli Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Makavelli Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - Makavelli Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Makavelli Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - Makavelli 
Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - peyk-peyk Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - peyk-peyk Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - peyk-peyk Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - peyk-peyk Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - peyk-peyk 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VERSATILE2K10 View Post
When I cut it's usually real weight. I lose a lot of muscle. If I need to lose water weight it would be only 3 to 5 pounds.
that's weird.
Left Banned Tua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:47 PM #25
Left Banned Tua Left Banned Tua is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Still in Big Poppa Pump's doghouse
Posts: 9,359
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
Left Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 117,650.92
Bank: 4,400,000.00
Total Points: 4,517,650.92
Morbidly obese Yank! - Plastic Geordie we can rebuild you - Jack D Ripper This account needs food - mangler fatten up a little - -veteran420- for when i piss on u - PensionKiller 
No Message - Akinapepemo No Message - Mr Jones Professional Pretzel - Loccy Eat more fruit, Fatman - El Pachuco Sig Sauer Cake - street bully jr 
Celtics! - -Ash- so much sarcasm desevers a medal - cleaner147 here hav a German Pretzel...lmo - cleaner147 ayan pre - peyk-peyk ito pa pre - peyk-peyk 
No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk For when newcastle win the league - Rocky... 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Makavelli Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Makavelli Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - Makavelli Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Makavelli Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - Makavelli 
Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - peyk-peyk Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - peyk-peyk Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - peyk-peyk Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - peyk-peyk Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - peyk-peyk 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllEyesOpen View Post
Didn't Roach say he saw a drop of blood where the had rehydrated him via IV after the fight night weigh-in or something. Again I don't know much about the whole dehydrating thing but that sounds real stupid to me.
yeah roach said that.

don't know if there's any truth to it though.

roach talks out of his ass a lot. it's normal.
Left Banned Tua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:53 PM #26
Dambala Dambala is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sevilla City
Posts: 2,939
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 14
Dambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond reputeDambala has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 94,235.45
Bank: 385,740.86
Total Points: 479,976.31
heres to you homie - markbnlv No Message - MARKBNLV 
World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - MARKBNLV 
Default

That's why I think boxing should go back to the fight day weight-in.
Dambala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:54 PM #27
Left Banned Tua Left Banned Tua is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Still in Big Poppa Pump's doghouse
Posts: 9,359
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 0
Left Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond reputeLeft Banned Tua has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 117,650.92
Bank: 4,400,000.00
Total Points: 4,517,650.92
Morbidly obese Yank! - Plastic Geordie we can rebuild you - Jack D Ripper This account needs food - mangler fatten up a little - -veteran420- for when i piss on u - PensionKiller 
No Message - Akinapepemo No Message - Mr Jones Professional Pretzel - Loccy Eat more fruit, Fatman - El Pachuco Sig Sauer Cake - street bully jr 
Celtics! - -Ash- so much sarcasm desevers a medal - cleaner147 here hav a German Pretzel...lmo - cleaner147 ayan pre - peyk-peyk ito pa pre - peyk-peyk 
No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk No Message - peyk-peyk For when newcastle win the league - Rocky... 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Makavelli Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Makavelli Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - Makavelli Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Makavelli Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - Makavelli 
Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - peyk-peyk Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - peyk-peyk Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - peyk-peyk Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - peyk-peyk Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - peyk-peyk 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dambala View Post
That's why I think boxing should go back to the fight day weight-in.
yeah except people will cut weight the day of the fight instead of the day before.
Left Banned Tua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:59 PM #28
Khalid X Khalid X is offline
The Truth Terrorist
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 12,780
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Rep Power: 40
Khalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond reputeKhalid X has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 185,441.32
Bank: 8,046,526,282,989,444.00
Total Points: 8,046,526,283,174,885.00
Thanks so much for all your HD wizardry! - AndyShitHot 2 commemorate ur new name homey .... - -Boxzilla- 720p legend ..... - -Boxzilla- the king of hd - -Boxzilla- Hooking it up with some excellent quality fights - TheCheetah 
The KING OF HIGH DEF FIGHTS - TheCheetah The King of High Def fights! - TheCheetah High Definition LEGEND - TheCheetah Thanx - PR13 u do homework - nice guy and top poster - cleaner147 
And still...! leaving HD devastation and destruction in your wake. - PittyPat For all the Videos Mate - Stone Roses! Money Mayweather &amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt; Pacman - Stone Roses! For the Vasquez-Marquez Trilogy - Stone Roses! cheers! - Tamis_Siensya 
gift giving time to friends - serv have some more mate! - Tamis_Siensya Thanks for joining the discussion in my thread about GF's and boxing, its nice to hear everyones experiences with being a fan of the sport!!! - Atreyu Khalil Kick Khalid Muhammed aka &quot;The Black Hitler&quot; - Freedom2013 Its white... - Mannie Phresh 
World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - Dynamite Kid Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- 
World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- 
World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - -Boxzilla- World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - Akinapepemo 
Autism - cleaner147 Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - South318 Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - Freedom Fighter 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllEyesOpen View Post
I always wondered this myself and people don't seem to talk about it much. Pac has been at about 144 on fight night since he was fighting at 130. Paul Williams weighed in at 3 pounds short of the smw limit when he walked into the ring against Quintana at ww, that 17 ****ing pounds. Clottey claims to be at 170 on fight night. I remember Mayorga making the same claim before one of his recent fights, don't remember which though.

My questions is simple, is this normal? and how is it physically possible without having a negative effect on your performance?
Its normal. I remember when Rocky Juarez fought Jorge Rodrigo Barios....both weighed in 130 fight night and both balooned to 146. Also Dawson came in around 173-175 and rehydrated to 190 plus.

Basically big guys can rehydrate 15-20lbs and this can still be considered normal

Normal rehydration for guys who aren't considered neither big or small for the weight class normally rehydrate 10-15lbs

Smaller guys in the weight classes usually go 4-10lbs and in most cases are only there because the class below doesn't have the names or big money fights he usually wants.
Khalid X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 01:59 PM #29
Dirt Dirt is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 682
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
Dirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 50,057,924.77
Bank: 89,399.20
Total Points: 50,147,323.97
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Gift Giver 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllEyesOpen View Post
Didn't Roach say he saw a drop of blood where the had rehydrated him via IV after the fight night weigh-in or something. Again I don't know much about the whole dehydrating thing but that sounds real stupid to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post
yeah roach said that.

don't know if there's any truth to it though.

roach talks out of his ass a lot. it's normal.
meaning they used an IV to rehydrate the day of, which isn't the right way to do it. at that point, they knew they had DLH.
Dirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2010, 02:01 PM #30
Dirt Dirt is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 682
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 9
Dirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond reputeDirt has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 50,057,924.77
Bank: 89,399.20
Total Points: 50,147,323.97
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Gift Giver 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dambala View Post
That's why I think boxing should go back to the fight day weight-in.
that's more dangerous. that means they're going into the fight dehydrated.
Dirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
15-20lbs, fight, fighters, night?, rehydrate

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:45 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.