Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

[King Flawless]

Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras

Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so. Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful. I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn’t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.

Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn’t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn’t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.

What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great

Thomas Hearns

Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO’d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.

He was KO’d by Barkley. Barkley was KO’d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him

What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.



Roberto “No Mas” Duran


Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154

The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn’t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran’s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO’D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.

Duran has losses to unknown fighters such as Laing Sims Lawlor and many others. It would take me a year to write down Duran losses. What I find most distributing is that he is ranked the highest among the so called fab four, when he has losses to all of them and one win. Again nothing special about Duran.

Duran would not be able to beat Floyd,Mosley,Whitaker at 135, and would have been KO’D by Williams,Winky at 160.
What makes Duran special: The No Mas incident. This is what Duran is remembered for and always will be. This is Duran stake for ATGness. Quitting has somehow made Duran greater. This lifestyle outside of boxing has also added to the Hispanic hype machine. Duran after Marciano the most overrated boxer of all time.



Sugar “LW owned “ Leonard
Even as an African American, I can say Leonard is also the product of African American hyping machine. For some own reason the AA community has fallen in love with this fraudster. Put a red nose on Leonard and he becomes a clown.
Hagler/Leonard = Oscar/Pernell. Both Oscar and Leonard stole the fight, they didn’t win. They threw flurries at the end of each round to deception the judges and it worked. They also were big draws at the time, so they knew they were also going to get the decision.
Leonard also waited for Hagler to get old until he rematched him. There was signs he was declining, hence why Leonard took the opportunity to fight him. Again, he lost to Herans in the rematch. He beat Duran when he was unprepared. What kind of so called great WW has to get a LW untrained to beat him? Leonard also was beaten UP by a LW. That is shameful. I would not consider PBF if he loses to JMM. Leonard was beaten out of boxing by two skillless guys.

Leonard is also another overrate Fab Four clown.

What makes Leonard great: His quick rematch with Duran. His robbery against Hearns. Telling Hagler fight will not happen in front of his face. And finally his so “win” over Hagler



Overall

Ther Fab four was NOT a great era, just an era fill of weird events which painted a picture of their so called greatness. You can’t say this era is better than the last WW era or the current one. You can’t say this era is better than Pac/Morales/MAB AND JMM era. I don’t think Duran would beat any top LW. I don’t think Herans could hang with the current MW right now. I think Hopkins would school Hagler and make him stupider than Tito. Leonard is the only one who I consider so what talented.

Fab Four is another boxing myth created by certain individuals trying to make Duran greater than he is and trying to have an Hispanic in boxing top 10 ATG

[TheGreatA]

Thanks for visiting but I'm afraid you've mistakenly come to the wrong section of this forum.

Here you go:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

No need to thank me for advising you to the right direction.

[GJC]

Originally Posted by King Flawless

Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras

Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so. Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful. I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn’t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.

Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn’t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn’t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.

What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great

Thomas Hearns

Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO’d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.

He was KO’d by Barkley. Barkley was KO’d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him

What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.



Roberto “No Mas” Duran


Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154

The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn’t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran’s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO’D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.

Duran has losses to unknown fighters such as Laing Sims Lawlor and many others. It would take me a year to write down Duran losses. What I find most distributing is that he is ranked the highest among the so called fab four, when he has losses to all of them and one win. Again nothing special about Duran.

Duran would not be able to beat Floyd,Mosley,Whitaker at 135, and would have been KO’D by Williams,Winky at 160.
What makes Duran special: The No Mas incident. This is what Duran is remembered for and always will be. This is Duran stake for ATGness. Quitting has somehow made Duran greater. This lifestyle outside of boxing has also added to the Hispanic hype machine. Duran after Marciano the most overrated boxer of all time.



Sugar “LW owned “ Leonard
Even as an African American, I can say Leonard is also the product of African American hyping machine. For some own reason the AA community has fallen in love with this fraudster. Put a red nose on Leonard and he becomes a clown.
Hagler/Leonard = Oscar/Pernell. Both Oscar and Leonard stole the fight, they didn’t win. They threw flurries at the end of each round to deception the judges and it worked. They also were big draws at the time, so they knew they were also going to get the decision.
Leonard also waited for Hagler to get old until he rematched him. There was signs he was declining, hence why Leonard took the opportunity to fight him. Again, he lost to Herans in the rematch. He beat Duran when he was unprepared. What kind of so called great WW has to get a LW untrained to beat him? Leonard also was beaten UP by a LW. That is shameful. I would not consider PBF if he loses to JMM. Leonard was beaten out of boxing by two skillless guys.

Leonard is also another overrate Fab Four clown.

What makes Leonard great: His quick rematch with Duran. His robbery against Hearns. Telling Hagler fight will not happen in front of his face. And finally his so “win” over Hagler



Overall

Ther Fab four was NOT a great era, just an era fill of weird events which painted a picture of their so called greatness. You can’t say this era is better than the last WW era or the current one. You can’t say this era is better than Pac/Morales/MAB AND JMM era. I don’t think Duran would beat any top LW. I don’t think Herans could hang with the current MW right now. I think Hopkins would school Hagler and make him stupider than Tito. Leonard is the only one who I consider so what talented.

Fab Four is another boxing myth created by certain individuals trying to make Duran greater than he is and trying to have an Hispanic in boxing top 10 ATG

Total nonsense from start to finish

[TheGreatA]

As for your arguments:

Originally Posted by King Flawless

The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras

Hagler-Hearns
Hearns-Leonard
Duran-Leonard

Eventless?

Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so.

Him, Carlos Monzon and perhaps Harry Greb.

Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful.

Take a look at Carlos Monzon's or Bernard Hopkins's best wins at middleweight.

Hagler dominated his era of middleweights and also fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran. He wasn't a big middleweight by any means at 5'9, Leonard and Duran were eye-to-eye with him and Hearns towered over him.

I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn’t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.

Marquez is a 36 year old former featherweight. He hasn't proven anything above lightweight, unlike Duran, Leonard and Hearns did.

Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn’t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn’t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.

One of his losses was a blatant robbery. He was only 21 years old at the time of these fights, fighting in his opponents' hometowns. Later on he avenged both losses in devastating fashion.

Hagler was even younger when he drew with Sugar Ray Seales (in Seales's hometown), the Olympic Gold medalist and highly regarded prospect. Hagler had previously beaten him, and went onto beat Seales again.

Hagler drew in his first title challenge against Vito Antuofermo. The decision should have gone to Hagler.

What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great

There was no controversy about Hagler. He came up the hard way, fighting for small purses in his opponents' hometowns, establishing himself as a contender by beating all the tough Philadelphia middleweights as well as the number 1 middleweight contender at the time. He went to England and took the title away from Alan Minter, defending it against all comers.

Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO’d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.

A lot of ATG's have been KO'd more than 4 times. One of these stoppage losses was due to an injury when he was 40+ years old, two of them above his best weight at middleweight, one of them in the 14th round when Hearns had run out of stamina.

He was KO’d by Barkley. Barkley was KO’d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him

Robbie Sims was a top middleweight contender while Barkley had fought 8 times as a pro.

What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.

Wins over welterweight champ Pipino Cuevas as well as Bruce Curry, Angel Espada, Eddie Gazo, Saensak Muangsurin, Randy Shields, Clyde Gray, Harold Weston

Wins over light middleweight champ Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran as well as Luigi Minchillo, Mark Medal, Fred Hutchings

Wins over middleweight contenders Juan Roldan, Doug DeWitt, James Shuler, James Kinchen, Michael Olajide, Mike Colbert, Marcos Geraldo

Wins over light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill and Dennis Andries

Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154

No skill?


7:15

Esteban DeJesus a bum? That's the same as calling Jose Luis Castillo a bum.

Duran was considered past it when he was over 30 years old and had fought more than 70-80 times as a professional.

The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn’t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran’s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO’D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.

Duran had lost once in 70 fights while in his prime. Obviously the losses start piling up when you are nearly/over 40 years of age and fight at 160+ lbs. He fought until he was fifty.

He had wins over world champions from featherweight up to middleweight.

Your criticisms of Leonard are too ridiculous to respond to. Apparently Leonard is a fraud for fighting an old Hagler and robbing him of the decision, while Hagler is a bum for losing to the smaller Ray Leonard.

[BattlingNelson]

Originally Posted by King Flawless

Nothing special about the FAB FOUR, Controversy is what made them great.

The FAB 4 era is not greater than any other era. People overrate their boxing skills and their fights. Most fights were either one sided and eventless. All of these 4 fighters had flaws and would have been exposed by many other fighters in different eras

Hagler
People call Hagler the greatest MW of all time, how so. Do people ignore the fact Hagler best wins are over much smaller men? He could not KO Duran who is much smaller than Hagler. He lost to Leonard a fighter who started at 147. That is shameful. I know many of you know the JMM-PBF fight is happening soon. If Floyd lost to JMM, he will be clowned on and people wouldn’t rate him as an ATG.But yet Hagler gets praised for going the full distance with Duran and losing to Leonard.

Are you guys aware Hagler has 2 losses and 2 draws early in his career. No one ever mentions these losses, if Hagler is a GREAT MW, he shouldn’t be losing to bums or drawing with them. Hagler was also afraid to move up. He knew his skills wouldn’t been able to compensate for his size disadvantage, hence why he stayed at 160 and waited for WW to come up.

What makes Hagler great: Simply, that he changed his name to Marvelous Marvin Hagler. This short war with chinny WW hearns. Also his controversial lost to a WW named Leonard.

Again nothing great about Hagler, his boxing skills are decent but it was the controversy surrdooning him at the time that made him great

Thomas Hearns

Easily one of the most overrated clown in boxing history. What type of ATG is KO’d 4 times. I can tell you for a fact that he would last in the ring with Mosley,Tito and Paul Williams. These guys are would all have Hearns out of there by round 5.

He was KO’d by Barkley. Barkley was KO’d by Robbies Sims for **** sake. Lost to 3 bums by points decision. Barkley also is overrated, yet he was able to KO hearns. Barkley would be classified as a can in today standards, and yes his early losses should been held against him

What makes Herans great: His KO win over small man Duran. His build fight with Hagler and his antics.



Roberto “No Mas” Duran


Some people have the audacity to call Duran skillfu. Duran is nothing more than a product of Hispanic pride, they use to him to help cover their insecurities. Duran is just a level above Hatton/Margarito skill wise. His was flat footed,heartless and one dimensional. They claim Duran was prime ay 135, a division where he lost to a bum with an inflated record. Most fans of Duran(Hispanics) claim Duran was past it when he was at 147, when he started to fight Americans. Yet Floyd is still considered prime at 154

The amount of losses Duran has accumulated is ridiculous. There should been an overhaul of ATG criteria. Duran shouldn’t been considered as an ATG, he has one lucky win over Leonard who had fought a stupid fight. One of Duran’s best win is over Barkley, the man who was KO’D and UD by bums. If people claim Duran greatness because of his wins after 147, then his losses should also be held against him.

Duran has losses to unknown fighters such as Laing Sims Lawlor and many others. It would take me a year to write down Duran losses. What I find most distributing is that he is ranked the highest among the so called fab four, when he has losses to all of them and one win. Again nothing special about Duran.

Duran would not be able to beat Floyd,Mosley,Whitaker at 135, and would have been KO’D by Williams,Winky at 160.
What makes Duran special: The No Mas incident. This is what Duran is remembered for and always will be. This is Duran stake for ATGness. Quitting has somehow made Duran greater. This lifestyle outside of boxing has also added to the Hispanic hype machine. Duran after Marciano the most overrated boxer of all time.



Sugar “LW owned “ Leonard
Even as an African American, I can say Leonard is also the product of African American hyping machine. For some own reason the AA community has fallen in love with this fraudster. Put a red nose on Leonard and he becomes a clown.
Hagler/Leonard = Oscar/Pernell. Both Oscar and Leonard stole the fight, they didn’t win. They threw flurries at the end of each round to deception the judges and it worked. They also were big draws at the time, so they knew they were also going to get the decision.
Leonard also waited for Hagler to get old until he rematched him. There was signs he was declining, hence why Leonard took the opportunity to fight him. Again, he lost to Herans in the rematch. He beat Duran when he was unprepared. What kind of so called great WW has to get a LW untrained to beat him? Leonard also was beaten UP by a LW. That is shameful. I would not consider PBF if he loses to JMM. Leonard was beaten out of boxing by two skillless guys.

Leonard is also another overrate Fab Four clown.

What makes Leonard great: His quick rematch with Duran. His robbery against Hearns. Telling Hagler fight will not happen in front of his face. And finally his so “win” over Hagler



Overall

Ther Fab four was NOT a great era, just an era fill of weird events which painted a picture of their so called greatness. You can’t say this era is better than the last WW era or the current one. You can’t say this era is better than Pac/Morales/MAB AND JMM era. I don’t think Duran would beat any top LW. I don’t think Herans could hang with the current MW right now. I think Hopkins would school Hagler and make him stupider than Tito. Leonard is the only one who I consider so what talented.

Fab Four is another boxing myth created by certain individuals trying to make Duran greater than he is and trying to have an Hispanic in boxing top 10 ATG

I'm surprised in the effort you must have put into this post and baffled by how little boxing you really understand considering that effort.

Take TGA's advice and head back to NSB.

[King Flawless]

Hagler dominated his era of middleweights and also fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran. He wasn't a big middleweight by any means at 5'9, Leonard and Duran were eye-to-eye with him and Hearns towered over him.

Don't make excuses for Hagler. So what he was 5'9. He started at MW, yet couldn't KO much smaller Duran. Lost to Leonard at MW, while he was active and the bigger guy.

Marquez is a 36 year old former featherweight. He hasn't proven anything above lightweight, unlike Duran, Leonard and Hearns did.

What did Duran prove at 154, before he was KO'd by Herans??? Yet this is Herans best win. Losing to Benitez and Laing and beating a green Moore in his 12th fight IS proving yourself??

One of his losses was a blatant robbery. He was only 21 years old at the time of these fights, fighting in his opponents' hometowns. Later on he avenged both losses in devastating fashion.

Didn't Floyd win a world title at 21??? Yet Hagler couldn't KO a bum at age of 21. Greatness right there

Hagler was even younger when he drew with Sugar Ray Seales (in Seales's hometown), the Olympic Gold medalist and highly regarded prospect. Hagler had previously beaten him, and went onto beat Seales again.

Hagler drew in his first title challenge against Vito Antuofermo. The decision should have gone to Hagler.

He beat an Olympic gold medalist. That is nothing. Winning a gold medal in amateurs is nothing compared to a real pro fight. It was obvious his style was not suited to professional ranks. Hagler shouldn't been drawing with nobodies, he is ranked a top 20 ATG, which is a obvious mistake

There was no controversy about Hagler. He came up the hard way, fighting for small purses in his opponents' hometowns, establishing himself as a contender by beating all the tough Philadelphia middleweights as well as the number 1 middleweight contender at the time. He went to England and took the title away from Alan Minter, defending it against all comers.

He changed his name. Leonard said no to him in front of his face, Racist attacks in England. I just listed 3 controversies surrounding Hagler.

A lot of ATG's have been KO'd more than 4 times. One of these stoppage losses was due to an injury when he was 40+ years old, two of them above his best weight at middleweight, one of them in the 14th round when Hearns had run out of stamina.

Getting KO'd by another great fighter is understandable. But getting KO'd nobodies and getting outboxed them is shameful.

Wins over welterweight champ Pipino Cuevas as well as Bruce Curry, Angel Espada, Eddie Gazo, Saensak Muangsurin, Randy Shields, Clyde Gray, Harold Weston

Wins over light middleweight champ Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran as well as Luigi Minchillo, Mark Medal, Fred Hutchings

Wins over middleweight contenders Juan Roldan, Doug DeWitt, James Shuler, James Kinchen, Michael Olajide, Mike Colbert, Marcos Geraldo

Wins over light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill and Dennis Andries

Some good wins there. No GREAT wins IMO. There are many contenders in boxing these days and those days.

No skill?



Esteban DeJesus a bum? That's the same as calling Jose Luis Castillo a bum.

Duran was considered past it when he was over 30 years old and had fought more than 70-80 times as a professional.



Duran had lost once in 70 fights while in his prime. Obviously the losses start piling up when you are nearly/over 40 years of age and fight at 160+ lbs. He fought until he was fifty.

He had wins over world champions from featherweight up to middleweight.

Why do post videos??? Just amazing how Duran can be considered as great defensive fighter. Ask Hearns how great his defense is. Duran defense is good as Hatton. He was extremely flat footed and didn't move his head when needed





Castillo resume is better than Esteban DeJesus. That is a fact

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Your criticisms of Leonard are too ridiculous to respond to. Apparently Leonard is a fraud for fighting an old Hagler and robbing him of the decision, while Hagler is a bum for losing to the smaller Ray Leonard.

Leonard is a fraud for waiting Hagler to get old. Hagler also embarrassed himself not being able to KO a natural WW.

[TheGreatA]

What did Duran prove at 154, before he was KO'd by Herans??? Yet this is Herans best win. Losing to Benitez and Laing and beating a green Moore in his 12th fight IS proving yourself??

TKO'd Davey Moore the light middleweight champ. KO'd former WW champ Pipino Cuevas. Won a decision over LMW contender Luigi Minchillo.

Duran held a world title at the weight. Isn't that enough to prove yourself?

Didn't Floyd win a world title at 21??? Yet Hagler couldn't KO a bum at age of 21. Greatness right there

I see this is all an attempt to make Floyd Mayweather look better.

Wilfred Benitez won a title at 17, yet Floyd couldn't even beat Augie Sanchez in the amateurs.

As I said, one of those fights was a blatant hometown robbery which can be viewed on youtube. The other one was never filmed from what I know.

Hagler avenged both losses with brutal knockout wins.

He beat an Olympic gold medalist. That is nothing. Winning a gold medal in amateurs is nothing compared to a real pro fight. It was obvious his style was not suited to professional ranks. Hagler shouldn't been drawing with nobodies, he is ranked a top 20 ATG, which is a obvious mistake

Seales was also a good professional with 56 wins on his record. Hagler was brought into lose against the hometown fighter who was an Olympic champion and a highly regarded prospect. Hagler upset him and was robbed of a win in the rematch. Hagler KO'd him in one round in their third fight.

I rarely see Hagler ranked as a top 20 ATG.

He changed his name. Leonard said no to him in front of his face, Racist attacks in England. I just listed 3 controversies surrounding Hagler.

Changing his name was no controversy. Leonard said no because he had a detached retina which Hagler understood. Only the Minter fight was controversial but Hagler himself was hardly a controversial character. He wasn't well-known by the public despite all his achievements until later on in his career.

Getting KO'd by another great fighter is understandable. But getting KO'd nobodies and getting outboxed them is shameful.

Hearns was never outboxed by anybody, never. Hagler and Leonard were not exactly nobodies. Even Barkley wasn't, he was a strong, durable middleweight contender who went onto win 3 world titles. In the first fight he was being hammered for 3 rounds until landing a haymaker, in the rematch he pressured Hearns to the ropes and outworked him by throwing more than 1000 punches, winning a split decision.

Some good wins there. No GREAT wins IMO. There are many contenders in boxing these days and those days.

Pipino Cuevas was a great win at the time, so were Benitez, Duran and Hill. He also had a whole lot of other solid wins which strengthen his resume.

Why do post videos??? Just amazing how Duran can be considered as great defensive fighter. Ask Hearns how great his defense is. Duran defense is good as Hatton. He was extremely flat footed and didn't move his head when needed

Ridiculous. Duran had great head movement at any weight and footwork at 135 lbs, one of the best fighters to mix in both offense and defense.

The video I posted proves that he had much better defense compared to Hatton and most other boxers.

Hearns's speed, reach and power caught Duran by complete surprise and he was practically out after being knocked down in the first round. He fought solely on instinct from that point on.

Castillo resume is better than Esteban DeJesus. That is a fact

Castillo had controversial wins over Stevie Johnston and Joel Casamayor at 135 lbs and a couple of decent wins over Juan Lazcano and Julio Diaz. Hardly any better than DeJesus beating Roberto Duran, Alfonso Frazer, Suzuki Ishimatsu, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet... Of course I doubt you know too much about these fighters.

Leonard is a fraud for waiting Hagler to get old. Hagler also embarrassed himself not being able to KO a natural WW.

You could also say that Leonard was courageous to take on the middleweight champion of the world after a long layoff and Hagler must've been good to take a great fighter like Leonard to a controversial split decision while past his prime.

[Kid McCoy]

This sounds like the same the kid who thought Ricky Hatton was no different to Ken Buchanan on here some time ago.

That these Mayweather cultists feel they have to tear down genuine legends in order to prop him up shows just how flimsy his legacy is.

[Obama]

While unfounded and severely clouded, this was a good overall effort from an inexperienced fight fan. These guys do get over rated, most notably Leonard, just not to the degree King Flawless would lead us to believe. If I had to rate who he was most on target on from most to least, it would look like this:

Leonard (Not bad at all on him really)
Hagler (Actually did make a legacy off of beating fighters moving up in weight, among other things)
Duran (Belittling of Duran's LW career is a no go)
Hearns (Pretty way off base on Hearns...if the man didn't have a glass jaw we might be calling him GOAT)

[princemanspoper]

I noticed theGreatA didn't spend a great detailed time of effort in defending Ray Leonard,He had to dismiss what the thread starter said about Leonard to validate his entire response but from what I saw he gave a three very detailed rebuttals in regards to Hagler,Hearns and Duran but not so much Leonard


And the first half of Duran's career is extremely padded,Title defenses against unranked contenders for the most part and he avoided a unification bout with Rodolfo Gonzalez when he was WBC champion,Ken Buchanan never got a rematch despite remaining a top contender and the major controversy surrounding their first fight