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#1
Old 07-22-2009, 10:29 PM
tesla_power
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Default Elite fighter Criteria

I just want to know what is everyone's criteria for being an elite fighter. Which should have more weight ... talent or skill? Longevity or being undisputed? How much does resume play a part of it and will you consider the state of the opponent ( past it, prime, shot, dehydrated )?

My opinion. Skills above talent. Undisputed over Longevity. Resume... yes but you never know the state of you opponent before the fight. On paper its easy but only when you step into the ring will have any clue.

To me, it's all about risks before the fight. Knowing that you are vulnerable but still have the confidence that you would win. The elite would often find a way to win ... or lose knowing they have done their best and have the confidence to continue on.

If I have to say on who are the elite fighter now...
a. pac
b. marquez
c. cotto
d. shane
e. bhop
f. pbf
g. williams

With pbf as the exception, all rebounded from losses as a better fighter. Pbf has been tested in the lower weights but I have yet to find an argument for JWW and above.
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#2
Old 07-22-2009, 11:07 PM
MonsieurGeorges
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It's hard to apply one criteria to all fighters cause boxing always goes through "eras" with all kinds of different variables. you can't really apply a formula to know who is great and who is just good, you just gotta do your research, watch the fights and bounce your opinions off other fans.

when i'm looking at a guys record i always think about the fighters key wins, and what did that opponent go on to do afterwards. roy jones win over hopkins is an excellent example. hopkins went on to dominate and it made roy look great because he already had the W over him.

big names wins don't really tell the whole story, you can't find out who is great on boxrec. too many people just check the record books and don't actually watch the fights and consider flaws and strengths in a guys style, especially when you're talking about fantasy match-ups

btw paul williams doesn't need to be only "great" lists, not even in the past decade. he might do something but so far he hasn't done ****
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#3
Old 07-22-2009, 11:09 PM
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Most important aspect is who you have beaten...Paul Williams is not an elite fighter...but he's pretty good...I think he will be an elite fighter very soon tho...
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#4
Old 07-22-2009, 11:09 PM
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the elite are the guys at the top of the top in boxing
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#5
Old 07-22-2009, 11:20 PM
tesla_power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billolden View Post
It's hard to apply one criteria to all fighters cause boxing always goes through "eras" with all kinds of different variables. you can't really apply a formula to know who is great and who is just good, you just gotta do your research, watch the fights and bounce your opinions off other fans.

when i'm looking at a guys record i always think about the fighters key wins, and what did that opponent go on to do afterwards. roy jones win over hopkins is an excellent example. hopkins went on to dominate and it made roy look great because he already had the W over him.

big names wins don't really tell the whole story, you can't find out who is great on boxrec. too many people just check the record books and don't actually watch the fights and consider flaws and strengths in a guys style, especially when you're talking about fantasy match-ups

btw paul williams doesn't need to be only "great" lists, not even in the past decade. he might do something but so far he hasn't done ****
Thanks. I respect your opinion but I do think Williams already is elite. Only thing is he is not a draw... if only other elites would meet him in the ring. I want to see him tested.

From the Quintana, he has already adjusted his flaws. Add in the fact of his freakish size, it is logical that people do not want to meet him. I have yet to find his flaws basing on Quintana 2, Verno, and Winky fights. I also think that if he does not have that size advantage he would probably be a good fighter only... but what can he do. He is born with it.
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#6
Old 07-22-2009, 11:21 PM
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to be elite you would have had to have beaten the generally recognized "man" in your division.
Notice that Cotto and Margarito were in the backpages until Mayweather retired.
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#7
Old 07-22-2009, 11:27 PM
tesla_power
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Originally Posted by The_Executioner View Post
Most important aspect is who you have beaten...Paul Williams is not an elite fighter...but he's pretty good...I think he will be an elite fighter very soon tho...
I only wish that Paul would get a great fight so we can see how good he is. In my eyes he is already elite. People just don't want to meet him. I do hope that he would fight Clottey. That is one guy that could test him and not afraid of his physical advantages.

For the bold part... kind of agree. But I do consider the state of the opponent, like Calzaghe-Jones. In my opinion, that was just a nice addition to Calzaghe resume but not a career-defining fight.
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#8
Old 07-22-2009, 11:34 PM
tesla_power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvestersweet View Post
to be elite you would have had to have beaten the generally recognized "man" in your division.
Notice that Cotto and Margarito were in the backpages until Mayweather retired.
I agree with your POV on being the "man" but would disagree on Cotto, Margarito. I believe they were the two major threats to Mayweather when he resigned. But I believe then as I believe now that Mayweather would win over them. But he has yet to prove me right. Hopefully, pbf would get have a fight with Cotto or Shane now. Of course... after pac. As a pac fan, I'd like to see if pac could beat pbf. This would mean $$$ and Legacy for pac.
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#9
Old 07-22-2009, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesla_power View Post
Thanks. I respect your opinion but I do think Williams already is elite. Only thing is he is not a draw... if only other elites would meet him in the ring. I want to see him tested.

From the Quintana, he has already adjusted his flaws. Add in the fact of his freakish size, it is logical that people do not want to meet him. I have yet to find his flaws basing on Quintana 2, Verno, and Winky fights. I also think that if he does not have that size advantage he would probably be a good fighter only... but what can he do. He is born with it.
Yeah dude I'm not ****ting on PWill, I'm actually starting to become a fan I think. He really just needs to pick a weight division and start building a body of work. I know it's a lot more complicated than that with all the politics in boxing but if he wants the big fights and can't get them he should atleast stay as active as possible and keep building a buzz. I like that he sits down on his shots more and i think he could do something if starts to build his confidence and be more aggressive. It's too bad Mandingo got locked up, I wanted to see him take on PWill
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