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Old 07-13-2008, 11:41 PM #1101
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I Guess So Cause F@#$ing Mom Wasnt Good Enough For Me *****!!!
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:45 PM #1102
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I Guess So Cause F@#$ing Mom Wasnt Good Enough For Me *****!!!
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:53 PM #1103
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Get Out Of My Ring *****! Come Back When Ur Dux Are Up
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:31 AM #1104
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Truth be told, I believe Sonny DID hurt his shoulder in the first Ali fight by swinging and constanly missing. He just couldn't hit the much faster Ali. I think under normal circumstances Liston may well have fought on with a hurt shoulder but he was demoralized by Ali and believed he couldn't win. So he bowed out with the injury. In the second fight Liston was clearly off balance when Ali landed the right hand and Sonny was PUSHED over by it rather than it being a clean knockdown. The problem was Ali refused to go to the neutral corner and Liston rightfully was not going to get up with Ali standing over him. When Walcott finally got Ali to the neutral corner and started his count, Sonny got up and resumed fighting. At that point Nat Fleicher jumped up and shouted to Walcott that Liston had been down for a ten count so Walcott waved the fight off and declared Ali the winner.

My problem with this is that I believe there should be no count UNTIL a fighter goes to a neutral corner. If the downed fighter gets extra time because his opponent doesn't go to the neutral corner then it's the other guy's own damn fault. Too bad, so sad. Go to the neutral corner next time. In my opinion no fighter should benifit from his own rulebreaking.

Poet

I agree with everything you've stated. That said, I still don't think he would have beaten Ali. I think he under estimated the young Clay from the start, who just happened to have his number.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:26 AM #1105
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I wonder. I read this list for a coupel of pages and I wonder. Where wolud people put the champ Ingmar Johansson on the list? I havent seen anyone put him by the ten worst, so he could not been that bad, or?
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:47 AM #1106
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I wonder. I read this list for a coupel of pages and I wonder. Where wolud people put the champ Ingmar Johansson on the list? I havent seen anyone put him by the ten worst, so he could not been that bad, or?
Ingo had a big right hand and a flicking jab that was about it really, He had a good record wins over Henry Cooper, Archie McBride, Joe Erskine, Eddie Machen, Brian London and of course a win over Floyd Patterson. Johansson had a fight scheduled with Sonny Liston just after Liston had beat Patterson but when London knocked Johanson down in the final round of there fight he decided to retire.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:26 AM #1107
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I agree with everything you've stated. That said, I still don't think he would have beaten Ali. I think he under estimated the young Clay from the start, who just happened to have his number.
Oh no I agree: Ali was just too damn fast for Liston. And for almost all Heavyweights for that matter.

Poet

Last edited by Ziggy Stardust; 07-14-2008 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:35 PM #1108
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Oh no I agree: Ali was just too damn fast for Liston. And more almost all Heavyweights for that matter.

Poet
I always would have liked to see a young Patterson against Clay. That would be a very good fight but the first one Patterson had back problems and was already a bit past his best and by the time they had there 2nd fight Patterson was way past it although he still had faster hands than most even at that point.
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:08 PM #1109
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I always would have liked to see a young Patterson against Clay. That would be a very good fight but the first one Patterson had back problems and was already a bit past his best and by the time they had there 2nd fight Patterson was way past it although he still had faster hands than most even at that point.
Floyd actually gave a good account of himself in the 2nd fight.
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:18 PM #1110
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I always would have liked to see a young Patterson against Clay. That would be a very good fight but the first one Patterson had back problems and was already a bit past his best and by the time they had there 2nd fight Patterson was way past it although he still had faster hands than most even at that point.
In fact, that second fight with Ali was Patterson's last fight. Patterson was known as the fastest Heavyweight anyone had ever seen until Ali broke onto the scene. Interestingly enough Floyd was a natural Middleweight and if he had fought there or at Light-Heavyweight he'd be an all-time great. The only real knocks on Floyd were his suspect chin and his tendency to brawl when he should have boxed. I get the feeling a prime versus prime matchup with Ali would be a fascinating chess match but ultimately Ali could take Patterson's punches better than Patterson could take Ali's.

Poet
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