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#1
Old 04-27-2013, 06:11 AM
SlySlickSmooth
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Default James Toney, gifted or a student? As well as other boxers

I was way too young to see Toney back in the days, but I've read that his style of fighting as well as a way he taught himself was I heard he would watch tons of tape of "old school" fighters. IE: Ezzard Charles

He would watch them, study them, and shadowbox in ways alike. Was he a student of the game, or gifted athlete?

Also how many great boxers weren't so athletically gifted as they were students of the game?

Boxers I would say were more student: Marquez, Malinaggi, Nicolino Locche, Bernard Hopkins

Hard to make a line of what boxers were more "student" than "gifted athlete" yes a lot of them are students, with gifts that helped them excel.

Can you name some boxers that weren't as so gifted as was their intuition to learn the craft?
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#2
Old 04-27-2013, 08:08 AM
stefl14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlySlickSmooth View Post
I was way too young to see Toney back in the days, but I've read that his style of fighting as well as a way he taught himself was I heard he would watch tons of tape of "old school" fighters. IE: Ezzard Charles

He would watch them, study them, and shadowbox in ways alike. Was he a student of the game, or gifted athlete?

Also how many great boxers weren't so athletically gifted as they were students of the game?

Boxers I would say were more student: Marquez, Malinaggi, Nicolino Locche, Bernard Hopkins

Hard to make a line of what boxers were more "student" than "gifted athlete" yes a lot of them are students, with gifts that helped them excel.

Can you name some boxers that weren't as so gifted as was their intuition to learn the craft?
Toney is a student of the game but he's also one of the most natural fighters in history in the sense that he is totally relaxed during fights. Only Toney can be so out of shape and not get tires. You cannot teach what Toney does. His talent comes in the form of being a natural fighter rather than a natural athlete (even though he was a very good athlete also). Also, you can't teach Toney's chin.
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#3
Old 04-27-2013, 08:54 AM
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James Toney didn't teach himself...He was taught by Bill Miller, one of the greatest trainers ever, himself a student of, I believe, Whitey Bimstein. Bill Miller also trained Emmanuel Steward when he fought as an amateur and was the man behind the scenes in much of the early Kronk success.
Bill Miller was a huge fan of Ezzard Charles and his style of fighting, as is anybody that knows boxing. And a guy being as relaxed in the ring as Toney, that comes from having a teacher that preaches that to you from the first day in the gym. "Relax. Stay loose." Over and over again.
There aren't very many guys that can translate 'only' being naturally gifted athletically into an extended period of success in boxing...Being able to run fast or jump high or however you quantify being athletically gifted hasn't much to do with fighting, if you're fighting guys that know about fighting.
On the other hand, while Toney and Hopkins and Marquez may be 'students of the game' it is not reasonable to suggest that they are not physically gifted as well. They just chose to specialize and focus those gifts, rather than to brag about their basketball abilities.
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#4
Old 04-27-2013, 10:03 AM
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i think the reason he boxes so well is because is he only spars as training. from what iv heard he doesnt do any running, sit ups ect just spars and he has sparred loads of top guys from a young age. when you train like that your reflexes/angles improve so much that you can fight relaxed and also he carrys no excess muscle that might slow him down through the fight. maybe a bit of fat, but your heart doesnt need to oxygenate your fat.
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#5
Old 04-28-2013, 01:14 AM
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Grade A explanation of punching technique. - - Ram Raid - 
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Great thread Great comments...spot on.

Toney is quite the natural, a great fighter indeed. So many skills, he beat up Rahman with counter punches and threw as many if not more punches per a round while Rahman looked like a chiseled Greek statue and Toney like a buffet eater. But yes, he trains properly and has such a storehouse of natural ability.

Toney is one of my favorites.
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#6
Old 04-28-2013, 02:20 AM
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James was a gifted athlete with football but boxing was not so natural. I fought out of the same amateur club as James and then fought with him out of Galaxy. Everything that you see was thanks to Bill Miller and tons of sparring once he was pro and hooked up with Jackie. James Toney did not make Bill Miller, Bill Miller built James Toney. Once you get the rolling down the ring is a much more calmed place......... Rockin'
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#7
Old 04-28-2013, 07:03 AM
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I recently read that Toney is a throw back fighter. The things he learned just aren't taught anymore.
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#8
Old 04-28-2013, 08:54 AM
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Grade A explanation of punching technique. - - Ram Raid - 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin' View Post
James was a gifted athlete with football but boxing was not so natural. I fought out of the same amateur club as James and then fought with him out of Galaxy. Everything that you see was thanks to Bill Miller and tons of sparring once he was pro and hooked up with Jackie. James Toney did not make Bill Miller, Bill Miller built James Toney. Once you get the rolling down the ring is a much more calmed place......... Rockin'
Thanks for sharing....you have a unique vantage point from which to comment.
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#9
Old 04-28-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlySlickSmooth View Post
Nicolino Locche

Hahaaaa good choice. I can watch Locche all day (although coverage of him is limited). He is in a way the most unique fighter I've seen.

Smoked and didn't look like a particular athlete in the ring. Didn't need to be, his reflexes seemed so quick.

I'm a bit confused by your choice of Hopkins as being more student and less athletically gifted, I would have put him equal on both terms, isn't he well known for being an excellent athlete?

Agreed about Toney, one of my favourites. Seemed to spend more time practising calling his opponent "*****" that he did doing roadwork haha.
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#10
Old 04-28-2013, 12:04 PM
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Locche is probably one of the most freakishly gifted athletes I've seen, chain smoked like a ****in boss and didn't put too much effort into his training yet still went 15 rounds easy, same with Monzon, must be something in that Argentinean water
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