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#1
Old 02-12-2013, 08:57 PM
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Question Religion vs Science How does it all add up?

Galaxy NGC 6872 the largest known spiral galaxy in the universe. Tip to tip, the galaxy spans over 522,000 light years, making it five times bigger than the Milky Way. At minimum there are at least 100 billion galaxies in the entire Universe.
How does this fit in with religion? Or does it? Where did we really come from? How? What are some thoughts and theories?
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#2
Old 02-12-2013, 09:11 PM
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Lettuce just pretend that an eternally, powerful creator just stared at walls and twittled his thumbs before he created us i.e. believing we are the only creation, etc?

Anyone find it interesting that through the chaos of the big bang, everything abides by laws and rules? Speaking of galaxies, the mathematical properties of a galaxy (sacred geometry/fractals/Fibonacci sequence)?

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#3
Old 02-12-2013, 09:12 PM
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Sadly human beings lack the capacity to comprehend reality past a certain level. There are 11 dimensions of perception that we know of but at our best we can only accurately perceive the world around us at the 1st, 2nd ans 3rd dimensional planes.

There might even be exponentially more universes than the one we live in now with entirely different sets of physics and laws.

Once you start delving into the more deeper and complex sciences like quantum physics and cosmology, science starts to turn more into mysticism and theory moreso than any religion that has ever existed.
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#4
Old 02-12-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akScoundrel View Post
Lettuce just pretend that an eternally, powerful creator just stared at walls and twittled his thumbs before he created us i.e. believing we are the only creation, etc?

Anyone find it interesting that through the chaos of the big bang, everything abides by laws and rules? Speaking of galaxies, the mathematical properties of a galaxy (sacred geometry/fractals/Fibonacci sequence)?

everything doesn't abide by certain rules, the universe isn't completely deterministic.

the very nature of quantum mechanics is probabilistic.
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#5
Old 02-12-2013, 09:31 PM
~AK49~
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Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
everything doesn't abide by certain rules, the universe isn't completely deterministic.

the very nature of quantum mechanics is probabilistic.
Maybe you are merely examining too small of a sample? Or interpreting said small example as to mean random, when in fact it fits into a larger pattern?

http://www.newscientist.com/mobile/a...-universe.html
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#6
Old 02-12-2013, 09:36 PM
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There's no concrete evidence for the claims made in that article. Hence the word "hints" in the title, they need to gain further evidence. As of right now it wouldn't be sensible to say it's a certainty.

It doesn't prove God either. It's probably a direct consequence of nature, similar as to why all planets are round. However, we just don't know why yet the Universe may/may not be fractal.

And also, there is an uncertainty on every scale.
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#7
Old 02-12-2013, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
There's no concrete evidence for the claims made in that article. Hence the word "hints" in the title, they need to gain further evidence. As of right now it wouldn't be sensible to say it's a certainty.

It doesn't prove God either. It's probably a direct consequence of nature, similar as to why all planets are round. However, we just don't know why yet the Universe may/may not be fractal.

And also, there is an uncertainty on every scale.
Getting defensive are we? I havnt said anything about 'proving Gods existence'. If anything it should be thought provoking, hopefully we are not afraid of thought provoking stuff when it disagrees with our worldview. If that was the case, science would have progressed nowhere. Data suggests we are in a fractal universe. Maybe its all happenstance, and maybe its the signature of something more. And since you brought up plants, lets take a look at fractals/sacred geometry in nature;







I could keep going, but i believe ive made my point. Maybe it is all happenstance, and came about from random chaos on so many scales. And maybe, just maybe, its something more, possibly evidence on the methods/means by which a creator created.
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#8
Old 02-12-2013, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by akScoundrel View Post
Getting defensive are we? I havnt said anything about 'proving Gods existence'. If anything it should be thought provoking, hopefully we are not afraid of thought provoking stuff when it disagrees with our worldview. If that was the case, science would have progressed nowhere. Data suggests we are in a fractal universe. Maybe its all happenstance, and maybe its the signature of something more. And since you brought up plants, lets take a look at fractals/sacred geometry in nature;

I could keep going, but i believe ive made my point. Maybe it is all happenstance, and came about from random chaos on so many scales. And maybe, just maybe, its something more, possibly evidence on the methods/means by which a creator created.
Oh please, your intentions were clear when you opened with:

Quote:
Lettuce just pretend that an eternally, powerful creator just stared at walls and twittled his thumbs before he created us i.e. believing we are the only creation, etc?
The rest of your stuff is just mere speculation with no actual backing. Yes, stuff sometimes looks nice but that doesn't mean it was designed by a creator.
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#9
Old 02-12-2013, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
Oh please, your intentions were clear when you opened with:
Yeah, that part was sarcasm all the while making a point....and i believe i made that point fairly well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
The rest of your stuff is just mere speculation with no actual backing. Yes, stuff sometimes looks nice but that doesn't mean it was designed or by a creator.
Actually, its math, not speculation. Interpretation is another matter. You hate the thought of there being a creator, fine, im cool with that. You want to believe all this came about as a result of random chaos, fine, i disagree, but am cool with that. The fact of the matter is, sacred geometry exists in life, in nature, in galaxies, and data suggests on the universal level aswell. Reconcile that with your beliefs however you can.

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#10
Old 02-12-2013, 10:14 PM
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The math isn't speculation but the idea that it has some deeper spiritual or religious meaning is. (Interpretation as you correctly put it.)

I actually don't care if there is a creator or there isn't. It's just when people try and wrongly justify believing in it then I feel I am entitled to discuss it with them, especially on a public forum.

I'd like the idea of a deeper meaning in life, a soul that never dies and what not which is why I tried so hard to be religious as a young person. However I can't rationally believe it so I don't pretend that I do.

The mathematically cool things in nature you're pointing to are generally just a common manifestation of the physical law that controls it.

If I was making you're argument I'd make the suggestion that God made physical law (such as gravity, electromagnetism) and that's why stuff turns out nice, rather than saying God designed the niceties personally.

But then again since we are playing with theories that don't have a huge amount of backing, I'll throw in M-Theory(an advance on string theory) that predicts 10^500 universes all with their own physical law.
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