which fight was joe louis best win? - Page 3 - Boxing Forum
Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-30-2013, 12:35 PM #21
Daddy T Daddy T is offline
BigDaddy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,646
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Rep Power: 20
Daddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 214,050,124,920.47
Bank: 4,880,770,051,069.59
Total Points: 5,094,820,175,990.06
Prospect of the Year! - Barnburner One of Boxingscene's best!! - JAB5239 atg poster! - jas knows his boxing - jas 
Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - jas Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - jas 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
More to it than political stuff. Schmeling had completely destroyed a Louis who was thought to be invincible....
yes everybody is aware of that ...
Daddy T is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 01-30-2013, 12:36 PM #22
Sugarj Sugarj is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,634
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Rep Power: 21
Sugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,030,083,917.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 10,030,083,917.59
For being a cool poster - -IronMike- beer for a good poster - led Top Poster. - Barnburner Great info in the running thread. - Barnburner for the excellent race time (Its new running shoes!) - The Surgeon 
for invaluable advice in the training forum - jas 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
The thread is not "what fighter was at their best when Louis beat them", either.

Louis demolished Schmeling in what was the biggest and most important fight of his, and just about every other fighter's, career. He did not have to get up off his ass and come from behind to do so. The importance of the match and the performance itself trump Walcott being a more difficult foe.....IMO.

I don't know if Walcott was that much better than the Schmeling who lost to Louis because Louis was an infintely better and primed fighter the night he smoked Schmeling. If I had to pick who'd have won between the two I'd give it to Walcott.

The second Schmelling fight was the most significant historically, certainly better known and most one sided. But thats it.....

Your quote in bold has no relevance here. A best win is surely a win over the best opponent a fighter faces when the opponent is also at their best.

Thats why for example Sugar Ray Leonard's win over Thomas Hearns would be considered a better win than Leonard's win over Hagler.

Not only was 1948 Walcott most likely a better heavyweight than any version of Schmelling. He was also probably better at that point than any fighter Joe Louis had ever met previously. It stands to reason that Walcott is therefore the better win. It was a huge event at the time too.

For a different example ask yourself, what was the better win for Duran? The rematch with DeJesus or the first match with Leonard? Duran was more prime for DeJesus, arguably more dominant. But Leonard would have been counted as the better win
Sugarj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 12:44 PM #23
Daddy T Daddy T is offline
BigDaddy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,646
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Rep Power: 20
Daddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond reputeDaddy T has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 214,050,124,920.47
Bank: 4,880,770,051,069.59
Total Points: 5,094,820,175,990.06
Prospect of the Year! - Barnburner One of Boxingscene's best!! - JAB5239 atg poster! - jas knows his boxing - jas 
Cesarean Sections - Headaches - Hospice Care - Multiple Myeloma - jas Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - jas 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
The second Schmelling fight was the most significant historically, certainly better known and most one sided. But thats it.....

Your quote in bold has no relevance here. A best win is surely a win over the best opponent a fighter faces when the opponent is also at their best.

Thats why for example Sugar Ray Leonard's win over Thomas Hearns would be considered a better win than Leonard's win over Hagler.

Not only was 1948 Walcott most likely a better heavyweight than any version of Schmelling. He was also probably better at that point than any fighter Joe Louis had ever met previously. It stands to reason that Walcott is therefore the better win. It was a huge event at the time too.

For a different example ask yourself, what was the better win for Duran? The rematch with DeJesus or the first match with Leonard? Duran was more prime for DeJesus, arguably more dominant. But Leonard would have been counted as the better win
agree with bold and kinda agreed on the following line too
Daddy T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 01:43 PM #24
jabsRstiff jabsRstiff is offline
! ! ! !
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 9,484
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 4033
jabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 19,488.92
Bank: 150,126,020,176.29
Total Points: 150,126,039,665.21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
The second Schmelling fight was the most significant historically, certainly better known and most one sided. But thats it.....

Your quote in bold has no relevance here. A best win is surely a win over the best opponent a fighter faces when the opponent is also at their best.

Thats why for example Sugar Ray Leonard's win over Thomas Hearns would be considered a better win than Leonard's win over Hagler.

Not only was 1948 Walcott most likely a better heavyweight than any version of Schmelling. He was also probably better at that point than any fighter Joe Louis had ever met previously. It stands to reason that Walcott is therefore the better win. It was a huge event at the time too.

For a different example ask yourself, what was the better win for Duran? The rematch with DeJesus or the first match with Leonard? Duran was more prime for DeJesus, arguably more dominant. But Leonard would have been counted as the better win
For me it's a toss-up between DeJesus III and Leonard I for Duran. I DO think beating your best opponent who happens to be at their best means quite a bit, but it doesn't necessarily rule over or out other factors- like how dominant you were/how phenomenal you looked. It does if there's a HUGE gap between the levels of the guy you crushed and the guy you struggled to beat, of course. There's a bunch of factors that go in to determining what a fighter's best or most impressive win was.
jabsRstiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 01:50 PM #25
jabsRstiff jabsRstiff is offline
! ! ! !
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 9,484
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 4033
jabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 19,488.92
Bank: 150,126,020,176.29
Total Points: 150,126,039,665.21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
Not only was 1948 Walcott most likely a better heavyweight than any version of Schmelling. He was also probably better at that point than any fighter Joe Louis had ever met previously. It stands to reason that Walcott is therefore the better win. It was a huge event at the time too.

[/B]
Better fighter? Yes. Better foe for Louis? Tough to say....considering Schmeling demolished a fresher Louis while the best Walcott ever did was lose a bad decision to a much older one.
jabsRstiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:10 PM #26
Sugarj Sugarj is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,634
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Rep Power: 21
Sugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,030,083,917.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 10,030,083,917.59
For being a cool poster - -IronMike- beer for a good poster - led Top Poster. - Barnburner Great info in the running thread. - Barnburner for the excellent race time (Its new running shoes!) - The Surgeon 
for invaluable advice in the training forum - jas 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
Better fighter? Yes. Better foe for Louis? Tough to say....considering Schmeling demolished a fresher Louis while the best Walcott ever did was lose a bad decision to a much older one.
To be honest though, I think 1948 Walcott does a much more decisive job on 1936 Louis than Schmelling did.

The Louis that met Schmelling first time would have been demolished by quite a few heavyweights. Louis was on poor form that night......even allowing for his defensive lapses and lazy left, he wasn't nearly as on form or on fire as he was for say the Baer fight.

I will grant you that the Louis fight was Schmelling's best fight.

And for the sake of goodwill I do rate the second Schmelling fight as being one of Louis's best wins. Certainly top five, possibly top three.

Last edited by Sugarj; 01-30-2013 at 02:16 PM.
Sugarj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:58 PM #27
jabsRstiff jabsRstiff is offline
! ! ! !
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 9,484
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 4033
jabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond reputejabsRstiff has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 19,488.92
Bank: 150,126,020,176.29
Total Points: 150,126,039,665.21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
To be honest though, I think 1948 Walcott does a much more decisive job on 1936 Louis than Schmelling did.

The Louis that met Schmelling first time would have been demolished by quite a few heavyweights. Louis was on poor form that night......even allowing for his defensive lapses and lazy left, he wasn't nearly as on form or on fire as he was for say the Baer fight.

I will grant you that the Louis fight was Schmelling's best fight.

And for the sake of goodwill I do rate the second Schmelling fight as being one of Louis's best wins. Certainly top five, possibly top three.
All in all...a damn fine debate!
jabsRstiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 03:02 PM #28
rightsideup rightsideup is online now
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,301
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Rep Power: 12
rightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond reputerightsideup has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 5,200,647,236.25
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,200,647,236.25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
All in all...a damn fine debate!
thanks with a career like joe had it's hard to nail down one fight as his best
rightsideup is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 05:52 PM #29
Sugarj Sugarj is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,634
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Rep Power: 21
Sugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,030,083,917.59
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 10,030,083,917.59
For being a cool poster - -IronMike- beer for a good poster - led Top Poster. - Barnburner Great info in the running thread. - Barnburner for the excellent race time (Its new running shoes!) - The Surgeon 
for invaluable advice in the training forum - jas 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabsRstiff View Post
All in all...a damn fine debate!
You're a gentleman and a scholer.......
Sugarj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 03:39 PM #30
Panamaniac Panamaniac is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Francisco/Panama City
Posts: 1,381
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Rep Power: 12
Panamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond reputePanamaniac has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,000,118,608.62
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 10,000,118,608.62
It was private before, fixed it. - HaglerSteelChin 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panamaniac View Post
That was arguably his best win, it was certainly his most important win, due to the international political bragging rights at stake. Louis' 13th. round KO of Billy Conn is also a high profile win after trailing the previous 12 rounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stokely View Post
That's the fight that first came to my mind. He was in trouble that night and did what he needed to do regain the title.
Retain.
Panamaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

Tags
fight, louis, win?

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.