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#51
Old 01-24-2013, 01:42 AM
damuttz112
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Wladimir was afraid to engage with David Haye, what makes you think that he would have confidence against The Greatest?
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#52
Old 01-24-2013, 01:49 AM
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Huh? He didn't engage Haye yet he won just about every round.
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#53
Old 01-24-2013, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damuttz112 View Post
Wladimir was afraid to engage with David Haye, what makes you think that he would have confidence against The Greatest?
Here is an observational difference. Physically Haye and Ali may be around the same in height and weight. Difference is that Haye was a modern day, nutrient enhanced, (perhaps even PED's, who knows maybe all of them are on it), specimen who literally does live up to his nick name by throwing Haymaker's.

Ali flails with his punches to an extent and doesn't even throw them properly. Not nearly as bad as Joe Calzaghe but still arm punches. Doesn't even look like he clenches his fists when he throws a power punch. Plus his calling card was to "Float like a butterfly" during his prime was it not? Why would Wlad run away against him unless Ali became the aggressor and deviated from his usual style. Unless you're speculating that there would be a role reversal, a la Leonard Vs Hearns?

Last edited by Cupo303; 01-24-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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#54
Old 01-24-2013, 01:59 AM
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Back to my other post, I think Ali's infighting is very underrated. In Manilla, when he for once didn't get a pass with his holding and didn't have the legs to stay away, he showed he could do it when he had to.

It's the same with Ricardo Lopez to some extent. He was a very good in-fighter (better than Ali), but for natural reasons you rarely saw him show it and therefore people like to assume he couldn't fight in close. Hearns was a fighter that really was quite awful on the inside, though, at least until the later stages of his career (he does a quite respectable job on the inside in the Barkley rematch all things considered).

Ali's weaknesses from a technical standpoint that cost was his low guard (which is more the rule than exception for HWs though) and, especially, that he tended to pull straight back from punches. This cost him against Frazier and Norton and made him take unnecessary punishment against Shavers.

A more serious flaw was probably that he tended not to take fights as seriously as he should have (neither in training nor during the actual fight) in his second career.
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#55
Old 01-24-2013, 02:02 AM
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My question is whether he would discover the need to use it against the Super Heavyweights of recent times? (e.g Lewis, Bowe, Klitshko's etc.). Most of the men that Ali faced who were taller (e.g Terrell, Bugner, Wepner) Ali had no problems dealing with them but they were not as skilled as the Super-heavy's of today. In my personal opinion I think Ali I think he'd work to his strengths (his speed and fleet of foot) and therefore remain light. His best gameplan against likes of Bowe, Lewis and the Klitschko's would be to hit, move and outwork/outbox them.

He has shown ability to fight on the inside, but not to the extent were he would look to control the fight from there. To be honest through, I don't think he would have to.
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#56
Old 01-24-2013, 02:14 AM
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Some of the posts in this thread are reasonable, to say Ali would be favored to win but Wladimir could be competitive or win as well is fair. They are both legends.
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#57
Old 01-24-2013, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupocity303 View Post
Here is an observational difference. Physically Haye and Ali may be around the same in height and weight. Difference is that Haye was a modern day, nutrient enhanced, (perhaps even PED's, who knows maybe all of them are on it), specimen who literally does live up to his nick name by throwing Haymaker's.

Ali flails with his punches to an extent and doesn't even throw them properly. Not nearly as bad as Joe Calzaghe but still arm punches. Doesn't even look like he clenches his fists when he throws a power punch. Plus his calling card was to "Float like a butterfly" during his prime was it not? Why would Wlad run away against him unless Ali became the aggressor and deviated from his usual style. Unless you're speculating that there would be a role reversal, a la Leonard Vs Hearns?
Both guys in that fight (Haye-Klitschko) were eagerly tentative of each others power and unreliable chin.

You are correct in the difference that Ali does throw a lot more punches than Haye and the fact he doesn't load up until he can finish his opponent.

Speed difference is closer than you think, but their styles and approaches differ. (Ali flurries with blitzing combinations whilst Haye looks to slip and finish you off with big counters)

Ali finishes Williams with flurries of punches:


Haye finishes his opponent with a 1-2 combination.


In my opinion the main individual difference between the two is: Footwork. Haye has a strange combination (also shared by Pacquiao) of at once having both poor balance, but good (unorthodox) footwork. Very fast feet and good lateral movement, but from a pure technical point of view, his feet are spread too far apart in his usual stance which means after he throws more than two or more shots, he gets completely out of position/squared up and has to reset again.

Haye was a difficult opponent for Wlad, he had a lot of attributes that could have caused him problems, but Wlad handled him well and Haye/Booths lack of a plan B hurt him badly.

I wish we had a lot more Heavyweights like Haye, exciting counter-punchers with power. The US Heavyweights need to step up, it's embarrassing.
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#58
Old 01-24-2013, 02:46 AM
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I think Muhammad Ali dances circles around Wladimir Klistchko. Wladimir hasn't faced anybody with half the skill of Ali. I like Ali by decision or late stoppage.
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#59
Old 01-24-2013, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupocity303 View Post
I don't think so. I've watched enough Cassius Clay/Ali fights to know that he hardly ever has his feet planted, and lands awkward punches on stationary targets who are mostly shorter then him.

There may have been one fight (I forgot the opponent) where he unloaded all his tools and had his Floyd-Gatti type moment, where he didn't just float like a butterfly and jab for 14-15 rounds straight. But that's the exception not the rule, and he could hardly do that against a 6'7 guy who isn't a bad boxer himself.
People talking all of this nonsense about 60's Ali beating everyone that ever existed with ease forget that he was almost knocked out by a guy weighing under 200 pounds. I think 70s Ali does better against Wlad imo. Each version had their strength and weaknesses.

There were no guys who were 245 pounds with wlad's size, skill and speed in the 70s. Anyone who was over 225 pounds pretty much sucked until the 1990s. Ali was greater because he was the best in his era and better p4p but size does matter and he would have trouble with Wlad.
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#60
Old 01-24-2013, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Own3d View Post
His defence is against the rules so can't actually be classed as a defence, it's cheating as simple as that. Wlad is the best cheater the HW division i agree with.
And this is only because you say so, please...
I heard no trainers, no judges, rarly figters even talking about this.
Every time you come with the different theory to discredit Wlad.
He is one of the bests ever, deal with it.

you can be biased but dont be nonsense!
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