Is Andre Ward comparible to Pre-Pacquiao Tim Bradley?

[SCtrojansbaby]

Originally Posted by Earl Hickey

Think about it, Bradley is a fantastic little fighter.

Good offense, Good defense, rarely drops a round, good inside game, fast, also headbutts lol, strong. Just a very good all round fighter with no noticable flaws.

Resume wise

Ward

Kessler-Abraham-Froch-Dawson

Bradley

Witter-Holt-Petersen-Alexander

Edge to ward, but Bradleys isn't too shabby and he dominated them all too.

You forgot one thing, Ward actually has talent, Bradley doesn't

[Rome-By-Ko]

Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby

You forgot one thing, Ward actually has talent, Bradley doesn't.

Then you have to say Bradley is better then Ward,to have made it this far without any talent is some feat...

[Bushbaby]

Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby

You forgot one thing, Ward actually has talent, Bradley doesn't

Absolutely preposterous post.

[Luilun]

Originally Posted by Earl Hickey

Think about it, Bradley is a fantastic little fighter.

Good offense, Good defense, rarely drops a round, good inside game, fast, also headbutts lol, strong. Just a very good all round fighter with no noticable flaws.

Resume wise

Ward

Kessler-Abraham-Froch-Dawson

Bradley

Witter-Holt-Petersen-Alexander

Edge to ward, but Bradleys isn't too shabby and he dominated them all too.

Bradley is a hype job who was given a belt by corrupt judges so get off his sack

[The Evil 1-2]

Originally Posted by Spiegelo

Lol oh I guess I'm being asinine. That's a good word you keep using there.

Anyway you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Ward fan than myself. I never claimed he was highly dependent on headbutts. I simply acknowledge that it's something he's very good at. He's a student of the game. He's got all kinds of tricks. If he's in a corner and his opponent is about to tee off, and he can time him with a right hand and come in with his head down, that's smart fighting. Move or get hit with a headbutt, but my eye's not getting cut either way. That's just one aspect of Ward's well rounded game, and Bradley certainly leads with his head too. He also sometimes does a little shoulder tackle when he misses body hooks, and Bradley does that too. That stuff is great, always touching your opponent, frustrating him, then smothering him so he can't do anything about it. The difference is Ward can then take a step back and land a clean uppercut.


I said in the first page that Ward is better. I didn't think that was even up for discussion. I even made the comparison of RJJ to Vinnie Paz just to illustrate I was only speaking to the similarities in their styles, not skill level. I also never said that Bradley pressured Campbell, I said he fought a bigger man's fight, meaning he wasn't carefully pecking with his jab, and at no point was he shoe shining. He was throwing hard punches and combinations, even at his arms/shoulders. He also did this backing up and avoided inside fighting until the cut. The fight doesn't go a full 3 rounds, so don't take my word for it.

And really? That's the only reason Tim didn't do well against Pacquiao? Maybe partof the reason is due to him not being in his proper weight class. Only seen him fight at 147 one other time against Abregu, and he looked like crap. Maybe another part of the reason he "failed miserably" was because he was fighting Manny Pacquiao. I mean did Cotto "fail miserably" because he was fighting a new style? Were Margarito, Clottey, Hatton, Oscar, Diaz, and Barrera all fighting new styles that they weren't comfortable with as well? Maybe in comparison, Tim didn't do THAT bad in a fight that I thought he wouldn't see the 6th round of.

It's interesting to see that you look at headbutting in a positive light. However, the manner in which Ward uses his head does not fit the technical definition of headbutting. Headbutting indicates a BLATANT lunge with one's head with the intent of making damaging contact with the opponent's own head. Given this definition, Ward does not headbutt. If you want to properly describe the way he uses his head, he simply puts it in his opponent's chest and swims with underhooks and overhooks to punch his opponent on the inside. If anything, aspects of Bradley's style fits this definition of headbutting. Ward's style simply does not.

As for this shoulder-tackle tactic that you attribute to Bradley, how does this, in any way, disprove my overall assessment of him being nothing more than a pressure fighter with good conditioning? You even admit that this tactic CULMINATES in Bradley "SMOTHERING" his opponent. Smothering is fundamental to the pressure style that I attribute to Bradley!

I just re-watched the Campbell fight. Sure, he may have boxed backwards and on the outside in the first round, but it did not ULTIMATELY win him the bout. Even one of the commentators was surprised by this tactic and said, "WE HAVEN'T SEEN HIM BE THE MATADOR VERY OFTEN IN HIS FIGHTS." If he's not the matador very often, THEN HE'S USUALLY THE BULL, which fits this forward-pressure style that I attribute to him. From most of the second round to the third round, he pressured Campbell to get inside and just started throwing punches in bunches, which got him the win.



You constantly keep trying to Strawman my position. I never said that Bradley SOLELY lost to Pacquiao because he tried to box on the outside. He lost to Pacquiao because he doesn't have the speed, counter-punching acumen, and/or defense to proficiently deal with him. Ironically, Ward has ALL OF THOSE ATHLETIC TRAITS that I just mentioned, which disproves the premise put forth by the thread starter that Ward is just another Bradley. Honestly, Bradley's pressure style is tailor-made for Pacquiao, which is why he chose a gameplan to box on the outside and counter against him. However, since he doesn't have the ability to do it effectively enough, he LOOKED TERRIBLE. To be honest, he should have stuck with the pressure style that got him there in the first place. It's better to lose doing what you're good at than to lose doing what you're bad at.

If you're suggesting that Bradley lost because he wasn't in his ideal weightclass, then you're being ridiculous. Bradley has no trouble making 147 and has the physical frame to be in the division. You first rebutted this by saying his lower body is too small. However, like I said to you before, that's only a concern if aesthetics were part of the judging for Boxing bouts, LMAO.

Bringing up Pac's other opponents is nothing more than a red herring ploy to muddle the conversation. They're purely irrelevant to our specific debate.


Your own admission that Ward is MORE SKILLFUL than Bradley further erodes the thread starter's premise. If Bradley doesn't have the athletic traits such as counter-punching acumen and defense that Ward has, then how can you say that they are the same style-wise? It's logically irrational. Skill dictates style. If Bradley doesn't have the same amount of skills that Ward has, how does it logically follow that they have THE SAME EXACT STYLE?

[The Evil 1-2]

Originally Posted by bojangles1987

Thing is, I don't think anyone is debating with you about Bradley being as good as Ward, he's not. But he's a well rounded fighter, and I thought that showed obviously in his fights. He can pressure, he can box and slip punches, he can fight inside and out. He's done all of this throughout his career. Even in the Pacquiao fight, which he did lose clearly, I'm not arguing that at all, he lasted 12 because he was able to slip and dodge when he got hurt and use skills very few give him credit as having. He was expected to get knocked out early by most of this site, and he actually came on stronger at the end of the fight than Pacquiao was. He's a pretty good fighter with an underrated skill set.

Well, by saying that Ward is another Bradley, implies that Bradley is as good, if not better, than Ward. You clearly agree with me that he's not.

As for this well-rounded skill-set that Bradley has, I have yet to see it in most of his fights. He wins PRIMARILY based on pressure, which wilts his opponents. If he slips punches so well, then why has he never been noted for his defense among boxing experts? Sure, he fights on the inside quite alright, but he gets there through FORWARD-PRESSURE. If he boxes on the outside so well, then why did he look so poor doing it against Pacquiao?

[Jcsuper]

lol at this thread Ward is way better than Bradley

[Rome-By-Ko]

Originally Posted by The Evil 1-2

Well, by saying that Ward is another Bradley, implies that Bradley is as good, if not better, than Ward. You clearly agree with me that he's not.

As for this well-rounded skill-set that Bradley has, I have yet to see it in most of his fights. He wins PRIMARILY based on pressure, which wilts his opponents. If he slips punches so well, then why has he never been noted for his defense among boxing experts? Sure, he fights on the inside quite alright, but he gets there through FORWARD-PRESSURE. If he boxes on the outside so well, then why did he look so poor doing it against Pacquiao?

He was so poor at it(boxing and counter punching)that three respected judges scored the fight for him..Oh and he clearly took the Championship rds in the fight against Pac...

See,what ya have to understand is similar in the two fighters style is scheme their approach in the ring..Their mentality...I've seen Bradley use a lot of different schemes to win fights..Let's be honest as well,the man has clearly beat everyone he's been in the ring with outside of Pac(one of the top fighters in the sport)that say's something about him bro...No matter what ya talking about..Bradley may not be the prettiest fighter technically,but he is skilled and his ring I.Q. is 2end to none.. I believe the way he has clearly beat everyone he's been in with(with exceptions to one)shows this...

[S H A R K B O Y]

Terrible comparison.

[The Evil 1-2]

Originally Posted by Rome-By-Ko

He was so poor at it(boxing and counter punching)that three respected judges scored the fight for him..Oh and he clearly took the Championship rds in the fight against Pac...

See,what ya have to understand is similar in the two fighters style is scheme their approach in the ring..Their mentality...I've seen Bradley use a lot of different schemes to win fights..Let's be honest as well,the man has clearly beat everyone he's been in the ring with outside of Pac(one of the top fighters in the sport)that say's something about him bro...No matter what ya talking about..Bradley may not be the prettiest fighter technically,but he is skilled and his ring I.Q. is 2end to none.. I believe the way he has clearly beat everyone he's been in with(with exceptions to one)shows this...

Are you really one of those people that believe Bradley won the fight against Pacquiao? If so, then you're delusional

Ward and Bradley have the same mentality? What am I reading here? You then equate mentality to different schemes to win fights. I'm sorry, but when has Bradley ever been known for being multifaceted. He's a pressure fighter who makes his opponent wilt; nothing more.

My description of his style doesn't negatively alter his W-L record. He has racked up wins based on this pressure style not this multifaceted game that people in this forum have been attributing to him.

Bradley has ring I.Q. second to NONE??! This is the most asinine thing I've read from you. Bradley has NEVER BEEN TOUTED AS A BRILLIANT TACTICIAN.