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#1
Old 01-09-2013, 10:52 AM
Simurgh
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Default Wlad's "weak" chin

Ok...

I decided to open this thread as this puzzles me for the long time now.
I am Wlad's fan but more than that I am boxing fan I like to discuss on boxing and on fighters. I like to read reasonable arguments and I tend to change my opinion even on my favorite fighters.

Today whenever someone mentions Wlad one of the first things that emerges is his 'weak/glass' chin. It's taken almost as the fact and it is like that for the long time.

I can't really think of any other active or past fighter who was so dominant for such a long time that has been accused for having 'glass chin' more than Wlad (in any division). Moreover what I find very strange is the fact Wlad is a super heavyweight boxer where knock outs are happening more often than in any other division.

Now here are some facts (I am not 'fact guy', I just want to put some merit in my coming questions).

Wlad fought 62 fights and he was beaten 3 times by TKO.
He never was KOed or put down by single punch. Every time he was on his feet before 10.
He never was down in his 140 amateur fights.

He was knock down by Sanders who is a hell of the puncher. The proof of that is 74% KO ratio among the fights he won. I never saw somebody was able to shake Vitali with a single punch as he manged to (and that's in the 1st round). He was a very hard handed fighter. I can't think of many fighters that would survive this :



Now going to Brewster fight. Noone who is objective enough can't deny there was something very strange the way Wlad looked in that fight. Wlad looked gassed out after the first round. He never looked like that before. He continued draining without even be touched by Brewster. The way he looked by the end of fight doesn't look like a hurt fighter at all, but as someone who is completely drained and gassed out.



This is what Emanuel said : "Wladimir was in perfect shape for the bout. In all of my years as a trainer, I have never seen anything like this. I know when a fighter is hurt from an opponent’s punches. In this case, there was something else causing Wladimir’s problems."

I am not convinced that this fight showed anything about Wlad's chin.

Then there is Peter's fight. Peter coming in that fight was a monster with record of 24-0 (21 by KO). He put Wladimir down 3 times in that fight, but many argue that 2 of those 3 were rabbit punches. That one which was clear in 10 round came more from Wlad's poor coordination than from him being hurt. He was fully recovered in matter of seconds after every knock down and he actually looked better than peter in same rounds.

Now there are lot of fighters that showed significant improvement in chin's strength with years. Foreman is the best example. Briggs is other that comes to mind. After Brewster Wlad fought 17 times and in those fights he did take some quite good shots from big punchers. Isn't possible that his chin improved with time?

Only recently he took a very good clear punch from David Haye. He was wobbled but with similar punch haye was able to put down Chisora who is known for the good chin.

Then he took a monstrous clear punch from 6 ft 8" giant on steroids and again I think he recovered very quickly and reacted well.

And for the end...

I don't claim by any means, Wlad has great or even very good chin but I wonder if people are taking on his chin too much.

And please don't make this thread in typical klitschko-antiklitschko trolling. I am really asking this as a boxing fan!
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#2
Old 01-09-2013, 10:56 AM
bojangles1987
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Wlad has a weak chin. He hasn't been knocked out since then because he's improved and his competition is not very good.
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#3
Old 01-09-2013, 11:01 AM
Simurgh
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Originally Posted by bojangles1987 View Post
Wlad has a weak chin. He hasn't been knocked out since then because he's improved and his competition is not very good.
What is the proof for you he has a bad chin (he might have). Is it Sanders fight, Brewster fight, Peter fight and why?

Do you think other HW champions would survived Sanders punches?
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#4
Old 01-09-2013, 11:04 AM
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I don't know, those laser lefts he took from Sanders were brutal. I don't think it's Glass but Weak. Everytime he get's hit flush his legs go all funny lol. It has to do more with his ability to be calm when hurt, before Wlad would panic and gassed himself out. But now through experience he's learned how to deal with it better by pacing himself. That Round 12 hit by Haye is one of biggest hits he's taken flush since Peter and he held for a long time. Apart from a spirited beating and getting busted for steroids, Wach was an abomination of a challenger to the title.
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#5
Old 01-09-2013, 11:11 AM
Simurgh
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Originally Posted by damuttz112 View Post
I don't know, those laser lefts he took from Sanders were brutal. I don't think it's Glass but Weak. Everytime he get's hit flush his legs go all funny lol. It has to do more with his ability to be calm when hurt, before Wlad would panic and gassed himself out. But now through experience he's learned how to deal with it better by pacing himself. That Round 12 hit by Haye is one of biggest hits he's taken flush since Peter and he held for a long time. Apart from a spirited beating and getting busted for steroids, Wach was an abomination of a challenger to the title.
Good post!

Apart from the fights where he was knock down I haven't seen a lot of "funny" dancing. He used to be somehow uncoordinated when hit which is different from hurt as he was able to recover fast every time.

Tony Thomson is not a biggest puncher around but in their first fight he hit him many times clear and Wlad was able to absorb all of that.

He was holding in 12th round against Haye but he survived the punch and actually he was better and able to hit clear Haye by the end of that round.

Wach is not very good fighter (that's clear) but he is massive and he surly can punch. Combine that with PED it can't be weak. Especially he landed unexpectedly and quite clean. Wlad reacted very well.
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#6
Old 01-09-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Simurgh View Post
Good post!

Apart from the fights where he was knock down I haven't seen a lot of "funny" dancing. He used to be somehow uncoordinated when hit which is different from hurt as he was able to recover fast every time.

Tony Thomson is not a biggest puncher around but in their first fight he hit him many times clear and Wlad was able to absorb all of that.

He was holding in 12th round against Haye but he survived the punch and actually he was better and able to hit clear Haye by the end of that round.

Wach is not very good fighter (that's clear) but he is massive and he surly can punch. Combine that with PED it can't be weak. Especially he landed unexpectedly and quite clean. Wlad reacted very well.
Wach has a 50% KO ratio, despite fighting bums his entire career....other than Wlad obviously. He did hurt Wlad though.

Wlad is very good super heavyweight, there simply hasn't been many good fighters around at HW to test him. The better fighters that he has fought, or even the lesser one's with good power, have hurt Wlad and/or dropped him.

Ultimately, he fights in a defensive manner and he's very good at it, so he doesn;t get hit on the chin very much.
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#7
Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 AM
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He was knocked down also by Steve Pannell (first time in his career), another concussive puncher.
I don't think his chin is anywhere near as bad as its made out.

The guys who have hurt him, dropped/stopped him have all been very heavy handed. Sanders hit like a mule! Brewster & Peter could sure crack
I'd say most was more from fatigue than him having a bad chin.

The first knockdown in the Peter fight wasn't an illegal punch & the second was a push.

I really don't think his chins even bad & it certainly is not as bad as its made out to be.
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#8
Old 01-09-2013, 11:31 AM
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His chin is granite p4p 1 of the best in the sport
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#9
Old 01-09-2013, 11:35 AM
Simurgh
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Originally Posted by gmc_rfc_06 View Post
Wach has a 50% KO ratio, despite fighting bums his entire career....other than Wlad obviously. He did hurt Wlad though.

Wlad is very good super heavyweight, there simply hasn't been many good fighters around at HW to test him. The better fighters that he has fought, or even the lesser one's with good power, have hurt Wlad and/or dropped him.

Ultimately, he fights in a defensive manner and he's very good at it, so he doesn;t get hit on the chin very much.
Prior to Wlad's fight Wach had 7 consecutive KOs - all of them were at early or mid stage of fight. He did hurt Wlad but I think he would not just hurt but dropped many great HWs with that punch.

You don't necessary need exceptional fighter to test someones chin. Just someone who can hit (if he manage to hit).

One more thing from the recent time. I remember in Chagaev fight after the bell Wlad has put his hands down and Chagaev landed very clean hook directly on Wlad's chin. Wlad wasn't hurt at all.
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#10
Old 01-09-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MR. LARRYX View Post
His chin is granite p4p 1 of the best in the sport
Please don't!
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