Would you say ali was "shot" when he fought norton?

[STILL_DETOX]

any of the times? some1 please school me on when ali's prime ended

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Didn't he first fight Norton around 71 or 72? That was after he came back from that 3 year lay off when they striped him from the title. His prime years would have been during the time they didn't allow him to fight, so it was robbed from him. When he came back, he was not as fast on his feet as he was in 67. The Ali that Norton fought was still good, but not as good as he was from 64-67. Ali looked pretty bad in 72. I think he just wasn't motivated. It wasn't until he fought Foreman and Frazier again, when he rose to the occasion and fought much better. But still, that Ali was not as good as the one from 64-67.

[Vadrigar]

Originally Posted by STILL_DETOX

any of the times? some1 please school me on when ali's prime ended

Ali's prime ended after the 3 year ban but he didn't become shot until he fought Leon Spinks.

[Sugarj]

Ali's absolute prime came in late 66 to 1967.

Ali's first two fights with Norton were in 1973. Ali claims that he undertrained the first time when losing, but he still had a very tough return match which he won by split decision.

Ali was still very much the best heavyweight on the planet during the next few years, as demonstrated in beating Frazier and Foreman in 1974 and Frazier again in 1975.

After the 1975 Frazier fight for me seems to be where Ali really started to show decline almost fight by fight. He looked awful against Jimmy Young in 1976 and later that year was very lucky to hold onto his title against Norton in their third fight.

Ali wasn't shot though, just in decline.

In 1978 he lost to Leon Spinks, but later that year regained his title in the rematch. Ali looked in great shape for the rematch and danced well, but his accuracy wasn't too impressive, though he certainly deserved the decision handily.

It was around this time that he started exhibiting signs of the early onset of Parkinsons; when he was tired his speach was more gravelly and less clear and he sometimes had a vacant expression.

He certainly seemed shot for Holmes in 1980, though I do agree that thyroid/weight shedding drugs played a part. He was much sharper and more active for Berbick in 1981, but his reflexes were awful. Despite winning a few rounds Ali did not decerve the decision. But what was most worrying was the difference between Ali's speach in the pre fight press conferences and in the post fight interview......you could hardly understand him after the fight!

[Anthony342]

Originally Posted by -D33Pwaters-

Ali's prime ended after the 3 year ban but he didn't become shot until he fought Leon Spinks.

The first time? Yeah, he kind of looked that way. How did he win the rematch though? Did Ali just have a better game plan and was Spinks just not experienced enough at that point? Or was it something else?

I thought he was shot by the time he fought Holmes.

[Sugarj]

Originally Posted by Anthony342

The first time? Yeah, he kind of looked that way. How did he win the rematch though? Did Ali just have a better game plan and was Spinks just not experienced enough at that point? Or was it something else?

I thought he was shot by the time he fought Holmes.

Ali won the rematch for two reasons:

1) He trained harder, came in lighter and in much better shape and danced much more. In fight one he gave several rounds away rope a doping and fighting flat footed.

2) Spinks simply wasn't as motivated and didn't train as hard for the rematch. His trainer walked out mid fight from what I remember because he didn't feel that Neon Leon was making much of an effort. I gather that Leon may have already embarked on his much publicised cocaine habit.

If the Spinks from fight one met Ali from Spinks two, I think we'd have seen a closer fight. In fight one there is no denying that Spink's stamina and workrate were world class.........he was a real handful with excellent amateur pedigree and some good head movement. He never hit that form again!

[Ray Corso]

Ali had about 4 careers!!! Some say he couldn't do it after the ban! I know that he couldn't move like he used to but that would have happened anyway! The first Spinks fight he didn't train At All!! He did the second fight but it was clear that he had once again had slipped. However he rededicated himself to get in top shape and he did just that!! I'm not sure when the nezt decline began but he hung around way to long like most do! Ali had a pretty full plate long before he fought Frazier in their first bout. Most think of him then, find some film of him boxing Williams or how he handled Liston, he beat the crap out of Liston and made him quit and that was a "straight up fight"!
As a young champ (defeating Liston) no one ever saw a heavyweight do the things he did for that matter he looked like a giant Willie Pep and when he spread his feet out to punch he looked like Sugarman!!
Watch the videos, study him on the move and realize that if he didn't want to take a chance he could have fought 10 rounders and gotten hit maybe 10 times! He could cover a 22' ring in a second it seemed! The Greatest! Ray.






but Joe was the Best!

[hayZ]

Alis prime was gone due to the lay off, he was out of shape because he didn't train properly for the first fight. After that first fight with Norton he really made the most of what he had left at that point (his stamina and speed were a LOT worse post-layoff) for a few years he was definately declining slowly until that third fight vs Frazier which accelerated that decline hugely. Post-lay off Ali was not as motivated fight-by-fight as he was pre-lay off. He was in excellent shape for every fight during 64-67 but after his lay off there were a lot of fights where he should have finished it earlier or should not have lost but he was put in that spot because he was not motivated enough and didn't train properly.

[Scott9945]

Originally Posted by Sugarj

Ali won the rematch for two reasons:

1) He trained harder, came in lighter and in much better shape and danced much more. In fight one he gave several rounds away rope a doping and fighting flat footed.

2) Spinks simply wasn't as motivated and didn't train as hard for the rematch. His trainer walked out mid fight from what I remember because he didn't feel that Neon Leon was making much of an effort. I gather that Leon may have already embarked on his much publicised cocaine habit.

If the Spinks from fight one met Ali from Spinks two, I think we'd have seen a closer fight. In fight one there is no denying that Spink's stamina and workrate were world class.........he was a real handful with excellent amateur pedigree and some good head movement. He never hit that form again!

I remember reading Mr. T, who had been hired as a bodyguard for Leon, said that he was coked up even on the day of that fight. It was a pathetic performance by Spinks who looked like a shell of the same fighter who outworked Ali just 6 months before.

[Anthony342]

Originally Posted by Sugarj

Ali won the rematch for two reasons:

1) He trained harder, came in lighter and in much better shape and danced much more. In fight one he gave several rounds away rope a doping and fighting flat footed.

2) Spinks simply wasn't as motivated and didn't train as hard for the rematch. His trainer walked out mid fight from what I remember because he didn't feel that Neon Leon was making much of an effort. I gather that Leon may have already embarked on his much publicised cocaine habit.

If the Spinks from fight one met Ali from Spinks two, I think we'd have seen a closer fight. In fight one there is no denying that Spink's stamina and workrate were world class.........he was a real handful with excellent amateur pedigree and some good head movement. He never hit that form again!

Cool. When did they start calling him Leon Neon? Just wondering because there was a neon light do it yourself product for kids in the '80s that had the same name. Wonder if it was named after Spinks.