The all new, Mayweather/Pac Master Discussion Thread - The fight that will never be.

[ADP02]

Originally Posted by Big Dunn

you keep doing that. you focus on "no ppv" rather than the amount manny was going to get. which is dishonest. If manny was only getting $25 mil your point would be valid. In lieu of ppv revenue, floyd was guaranteeing him $12 mil more than he ever earned. Thats not bad. yes manny is a big part, and $40 mil is a big number.

your last paragraph is retarded. cotto made a fight with floyd as soon as he left TR. How come it wasnt made when he was with TR, which was chopper's point. you try and pivot to whether cotto was the same as he was in 2007. of course he wasnt. That would also mean he wasn't right when he fought manny. But that doesn't matter regarding this discussion.

Manny took a fight with JMM where he got about $28 mil WITH THE BULK OF THE PPV REVENUE, because he thought it was an easy payday. He got KTFO instead.

Floyd makes more per fight than Manny right? but Manny makes more as a boxer than Floyd on a yearly basis. So how can you be OK with Floyd, who makes more per fight making more than double and perhaps triple what he usually makes while Manny only making about 35% more than usual of an already less per fight amount?

Only some Floyd fans think that was Floyd saying "I made you an offer that will get this fight on"

You brought up a fight in 2005 and state that I pivoted? I see you got off that point fast because you know that you were clearly wrong!

Again, Floyd vs Cotto was made because the risk was much lower. You again agreed to the fact that Cotto was not the same fighter as he was in 2007. So then you agreed that the risk was minimal. So at that point it doesn't matter who Cotto is with. It matters much more which type of fighter that Floyd fought. A non-risk fighter that has a draw. That's all we need to know!!! That is Floyd's equation for an opponent. Less risk, high reward (ie. big payday).

That is what we always discuss about Floyd and you agreed without realizing it!!!

BUT even then .... so what he is or is not with Top Rank. Sure it makes things more complicated BUT for example, Manny fought Oscar even though people said that TR would never fight anyone outside their stable especially a Golden Boy fighter .... well Oscar is Mr Golden Boy himself!!! .... and furthermore it happened even though Manny was a huge underdog. How can Bob Arum have Oscar from Golden Boy, who was the clear favorite, be aloud to demolish one of his top fighters in Manny?

Also please let me know, prior to May 2012 and prior to beating Margarito, if someone could imagine seeing Cotto saying he was in any way ready to face a top caliber fighter? I still questioned even after Margarito but before that? Margarito represented one of those demons that had to be removed first.


In summary, it was just a good pay day for Floyd (vs Cotto). We all know that so lets stop pretending that it was anything more than that!

[Big Dunn]

Originally Posted by ADP02

Floyd makes more per fight than Manny right? but Manny makes more as a boxer than Floyd on a yearly basis. So how can you be OK with Floyd, who makes more per fight making more than double and perhaps triple what he usually makes while Manny only making about 35% more than usual of an already less per fight amount?

Only some Floyd fans think that was Floyd saying "I made you an offer that will get this fight on"

You brought up a fight in 2005 and state that I pivoted? I see you got off that point fast because you know that you were clearly wrong!

Again, Floyd vs Cotto was made because the risk was much lower. You again agreed to the fact that Cotto was not the same fighter as he was in 2007. So then you agreed that the risk was minimal. So at that point it doesn't matter who Cotto is with. It matters much more which type of fighter that Floyd fought. A non-risk fighter that has a draw. That's all we need to know!!! That is Floyd's equation for an opponent. Less risk, high reward (ie. big payday).

That is what we always discuss about Floyd and you agreed without realizing it!!!

BUT even then .... so what he is or is not with Top Rank. Sure it makes things more complicated BUT for example, Manny fought Oscar even though people said that TR would never fight anyone outside their stable especially a Golden Boy fighter .... well Oscar is Mr Golden Boy himself!!! .... and furthermore it happened even though Manny was a huge underdog. How can Bob Arum have Oscar from Golden Boy, who was the clear favorite, be aloud to demolish one of his top fighters in Manny?

Also please let me know, prior to May 2012 and prior to beating Margarito, if someone could imagine seeing Cotto saying he was in any way ready to face a top caliber fighter? I still questioned even after Margarito but before that? Margarito represented one of those demons that had to be removed first.


In summary, it was just a good pay day for Floyd (vs Cotto). We all know that so lets stop pretending that it was anything more than that!

the reason floyd would be making triple is because he is his own promoter. He wouldn't be just getting money as a fighter. Manny, since he is still with TR is just a fighter, so his earnings aren't as much.

ANyone with half a brain knew a 147 lb ODH wasn't going to be as good as he was. Manny won and deserves credit. But I don't know what Manny/ODh has to do with the discussion. Again you are pvioting to things that have no bearing on the hear and now.

If it was nothing more than a good payday, then thats why Manny trried to fight him again, for the easy payday. But cotto turned him down and went for another easy payday and got embarassed.

so for all your babble we are right back to where we started. Manny turned down $40 mil to make $28 mil. And once cotto refused to give him what you called "an easy payday" then he tried for another and got his ass beat.

[ADP02]

Originally Posted by Big Dunn

the reason floyd would be making triple is because he is his own promoter. He wouldn't be just getting money as a fighter. Manny, since he is still with TR is just a fighter, so his earnings aren't as much.

ANyone with half a brain knew a 147 lb ODH wasn't going to be as good as he was. Manny won and deserves credit. But I don't know what Manny/ODh has to do with the discussion. Again you are pvioting to things that have no bearing on the hear and now.

If it was nothing more than a good payday, then thats why Manny trried to fight him again, for the easy payday. But cotto turned him down and went for another easy payday and got embarassed.

so for all your babble we are right back to where we started. Manny turned down $40 mil to make $28 mil. And once cotto refused to give him what you called "an easy payday" then he tried for another and got his ass beat.

edit double post

[ADP02]

Originally Posted by Big Dunn

the reason floyd would be making triple is because he is his own promoter. He wouldn't be just getting money as a fighter. Manny, since he is still with TR is just a fighter, so his earnings aren't as much.

ANyone with half a brain knew a 147 lb ODH wasn't going to be as good as he was. Manny won and deserves credit. But I don't know what Manny/ODh has to do with the discussion. Again you are pvioting to things that have no bearing on the hear and now.

If it was nothing more than a good payday, then thats why Manny trried to fight him again, for the easy payday. But cotto turned him down and went for another easy payday and got embarassed.

so for all your babble we are right back to where we started. Manny turned down $40 mil to make $28 mil. And once cotto refused to give him what you called "an easy payday" then he tried for another and got his ass beat.

Then why are all of Floyd's fights promoted by GBP? GBP is doing this for free? Sorry but I do not buy that at all! The real people who to ask when its about money is Al Haymon. Floyd just likes to talk and say that he is his own boss but when he is pressured, he will tell you to revert back to Al Haymon .... that is why we keep getting excuses as to why Floyd never fought Berto and others, remember? Al Haymon doesn't let his fighters fight each other excuse .... If Floyd is a promoter then so is Manny ... he has 50 and his Manny Promotions as well .... lol! but for me, those are all side issues or a joke of an excuse ......

Floyd just didn't want to fight and didn't deserve double or triple of his already high per fight money while Manny would get only 35% more of a lesser starting amount. Simple as that. Even quite a few of the Floyd fans admitted to that.

Oscar came in at 150 the fight prior to Manny and kept on telling us how good he felt. A majority of the boxing experts thought that Oscar would win by a landslide. Some thought it was a joke of a fight because they thought that Manny had no chance. Go check out Roger Mayweather interview, for example. Of course, its much easier to state what was stated after the fight .... but the point was that Arum let his top fighter fight someone from GB where Manny was expected to lose! So the point was that it shoots down your hypothesis that Arum would not allow a fighter of his to fight someone from outside his stable, especially if there is a high chance that his fighter would lose.


When the rumor was that Manny was going to fight Cotto again I said, I hope that is not the case as there is nothing to gain from that and it would be just a money fight. So what you stated doesn't change the fact that Floyd vs Cotto was just a money fight .... yet you are trying to convince us otherwise.

Imagine, if Floyd is his own boss, as he says he is, he just can't get a break in getting all those tough fights ... only those with less risk and high reward.... interesting! Yup, must be Arums fault ...... but Sergio Martinez's name has been floating around forever. BUT Paul Williams wanted the fight but he was an AL Hyman fighter ... oh wait but Floyd is his own boss .... man this is getting too confusing! lol!

[Big Dunn]

Originally Posted by ADP02

Then why are all of Floyd's fights promoted by GBP? GBP is doing this for free? Sorry but I do not buy that at all! The real people who to ask when its about money is Al Haymon. Floyd just likes to talk and say that he is his own boss but when he is pressured, he will tell you to revert back to Al Haymon .... that is why we keep getting excuses as to why Floyd never fought Berto and others, remember? Al Haymon doesn't let his fighters fight each other excuse .... If Floyd is a promoter then so is Manny ... he has 50 and his Manny Promotions as well .... lol! but for me, those are all side issues or a joke of an excuse ......

Floyd just didn't want to fight and didn't deserve double or triple of his already high per fight money while Manny would get only 35% more of a lesser starting amount. Simple as that. Even quite a few of the Floyd fans admitted to that.

Oscar came in at 150 the fight prior to Manny and kept on telling us how good he felt. A majority of the boxing experts thought that Oscar would win by a landslide. Some thought it was a joke of a fight because they thought that Manny had no chance. Go check out Roger Mayweather interview, for example. Of course, its much easier to state what was stated after the fight .... but the point was that Arum let his top fighter fight someone from GB where Manny was expected to lose! So the point was that it shoots down your hypothesis that Arum would not allow a fighter of his to fight someone from outside his stable, especially if there is a high chance that his fighter would lose.


When the rumor was that Manny was going to fight Cotto again I said, I hope that is not the case as there is nothing to gain from that and it would be just a money fight. So what you stated doesn't change the fact that Floyd vs Cotto was just a money fight .... yet you are trying to convince us otherwise.

Imagine, if Floyd is his own boss, as he says he is, he just can't get a break in getting all those tough fights ... only those with less risk and high reward.... interesting! Yup, must be Arums fault ...... but Sergio Martinez's name has been floating around forever. BUT Paul Williams wanted the fight but he was an AL Hyman fighter ... oh wait but Floyd is his own boss .... man this is getting too confusing! lol!

there is an article in the new york times which details floyd's agreement with them. so if you won't believe that than so be it.

what you think floyd desreves is irrelevant. floyds deal allows him to make that much. If manny wants more he needs a better deal.

Manny wasn't expected to lose by anyone with any sense, especially top rank's matchmakers. the same people who thought that though cotto was going to beat trout.

no I'm not trying to convince you or anyone floyd cotto was anything great. ive never posted it but you keep repeating it because you keep tyriong to pivot to unrelated issues.

manny took the easy money and got ktfo because he did.

[ADP02]

Originally Posted by Big Dunn

there is an article in the new york times which details floyd's agreement with them. so if you won't believe that than so be it.

what you think floyd desreves is irrelevant. floyds deal allows him to make that much. If manny wants more he needs a better deal.

Manny wasn't expected to lose by anyone with any sense, especially top rank's matchmakers. the same people who thought that though cotto was going to beat trout.

no I'm not trying to convince you or anyone floyd cotto was anything great. ive never posted it but you keep repeating it because you keep tyriong to pivot to unrelated issues.

manny took the easy money and got ktfo because he did.

Floyd made around $40 million for his last fight against the 3rd highest draw as far as opponent goes. Manny got around $28 million. You have yet to convince me how one should deserve to go from $40 million to over $100 million with the potential of making a lot more while Manny would only go up to $40 million with "NO PPV MONEY". Manny also gets a deal where he usually gets a guarantee .... YES that is also relevant to how big that fight is ... BUT he also gets a piece of the PPV money and whatever else is in his contract. So the deal is less on the back end ... in fact it would be 0 if he agreed with Floyd!!! .... that is laughable to think that is what Manny should get.

You seem to be saying Floyd should get whatever he wants because he has a deal with GB and Al Haymon and it doesn't matter that Manny has his own deal where he gets more than the guaranteed up front money.

As far as Oscar vs Manny most thought Oscar was going to win. You are trying to change history here. Imagine Arum was going to let GB beat his top fighter. Just having GB get that chance shoots down the point that Arum doesn't let his fighters fight outside his stable. No pivot here. Just trying to prove to you that Arum does let his top fighters fight outside his stable and where there is a good chance that they would lose. So it didn't matter if Cotto was with or not with Arum.

Cotto vs Floyd was just a pay day for Floyd ...

[jack2x]

Originally Posted by ADP02

Floyd made around $40 million for his last fight against the 3rd highest draw as far as opponent goes. Manny got around $28 million. You have yet to convince me how one should deserve to go from $40 million to over $100 million with the potential of making a lot more while Manny would only go up to $40 million with "NO PPV MONEY". Manny also gets a deal where he usually gets a guarantee .... YES that is also relevant to how big that fight is ... BUT he also gets a piece of the PPV money and whatever else is in his contract. So the deal is less on the back end ... in fact it would be 0 if he agreed with Floyd!!! .... that is laughable to think that is what Manny should get.

You seem to be saying Floyd should get whatever he wants because he has a deal with GB and Al Haymon and it doesn't matter that Manny has his own deal where he gets more than the guaranteed up front money.

As far as Oscar vs Manny most thought Oscar was going to win. You are trying to change history here. Imagine Arum was going to let GB beat his top fighter. Just having GB get that chance shoots down the point that Arum doesn't let his fighters fight outside his stable. No pivot here. Just trying to prove to you that Arum does let his top fighters fight outside his stable and where there is a good chance that they would lose. So it didn't matter if Cotto was with or not with Arum.

Cotto vs Floyd was just a pay day for Floyd ...

+++++++++actually, floyd's 40 million usd take on his last fight is almost the same with pacman's 28 million usd.. add bob arum's fee of around 27% of pac's purse since pac works under bob arum and you'll notice that both have almost the same fight purse.

[NatiKid]

if he pays arum that much per fight he is dumber then i thought

[jack2x]

Originally Posted by NatiKid

if he pays arum that much per fight he is dumber then i thought

that was not a dumb move.. it's reality when a boxer is under a promotional company. only a dumb promoter who'll spent his own money will allow an upstart boxer to dictate how much % will a promoter will take.

[ashleyhotti]

All that matters is we have all been robbed of arguably the biggest fight in boxing history. And that is because of the greed and egos of BOTH sides involved.

Both Pacquiao and Arum, and Mayweather and Golden Boy are the reaons this fight has never been made. It is an absolute joke this fight could not be made, it was inevitable that Pacquiao or Mayweather would get caught and would eventually lose ending this megafight. The fact is this is one of the most disgusting eras in boxing history, 2 of the greatest boxers ever in the same division in their primes for several years and they never fought each other. In a fight that would have garnered potetially hundreds of millions of dollars, everyone is to blame. The fact Mayweather asked for random drug testing at the lest second is a joke, the fact Pacquiao wouldn't agree to it is also a joke. The fact Mayweather wanted a bigger purse earlier this year and the fact that Arum never wanted to negotiate with Floyd is a joke.

This whole thing is typical of sports these days. It is not about what is best for fans, its whats best for these millionaire greedy egos involved. I am canadian and the same thing just happened with losing half the Nhl season due to a lockout. Nobody cares about the fans, they only care about the almighty dollar.

What a ****ing joke this sport has become to have wasted the chance to host the biggest fight in history which should have been made several times these past several years. Their are no excuses, both Pacquiao, Mayweather, and their teams and promoters are to blame. What a slap in the face to the fans who line their pockets with Millions and millions every year.